God view

Originally posted by dj2becker
I have a Christian life view. Thus I have a Christian view of God. Thus I believe that God is the eternal creator of the universe. I believe that God created man in His own image.

The skeptics have asked me the following question. “If ...[text shortened]... imself: His love.

Anyone have other views regarding this issue?

dj2,

in your god view (and subsequent posts) you seem to imply that god as you perceive him is clearly defined. what are you basing this on? i am not familiar with the whole of the bible, so i wonder if the bible clearly defines god? for example, does the bible explicitly state that god is omniscient, omnipotent, eternal, etc? if so, does the bible also make it clear how these attributes are themselves defined?

also, within your god view, do you take a strictly literal interpretation of the bible?

EDIT: one reason i ask about the definitions is because you cited the dictionary several times, rather than the bible, which led me to ask why you were out-sourcing.

Originally posted by telerion
[b]God by definition is omnipotent.

So are a lot of other gods, by defintion. Big deal.

This means that if God was created by Muffy he would no longer be omnipotent.

Not true. By omnipotence, God can do anything that ...[text shortened]... t the Bible enough?

By the way, where did you attend college?[/b]

So are a lot of other gods, by defintion. Big deal.

Mind naming a few?

Not true. By omnipotence, God can do anything that is logically possible.

Where did you hear this? Omnipotence is defined as "Having unlimited or universal power."

Muffy gave God this ability, along with a lot of other deities. Your argument has no merit.

On what substance do you base this? 2 Opinions 5:4 from Murphy's law? Your argument has no merit, because God and Muffy cannot exist simutaneously. They would be competing for omnipotence. If you believe in God you cannot believe in Muffy, and visa versa. You don't believe in God, which means you cannot believe in Muffy in the first place.

Muffy by definition created God and sustains God, therefore if God exists then Muffy exists by definition.

Where do you get your definition of Muffy?

I didn't realize that the dictionary was your ultimate source for truth.

It definately is not.

The dictionary does define Zeus. Does that mean Zeus is real?

Zeus is defined as "The God of Greek mythology". A myth is fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.

BTW looks like you've got two divine books now: the Bible and the dictionary. Wasn't the Bible enough?

Well you don't believe the Bible. It also seems you don't believe the dictionary either. Which means you concoct your own definitions for words to ensure that you are never wrong.

By the way, where did you attend college?

What makes you think that I have finished studying at the age of 19?

Originally posted by LemonJello
dj2,

in your god view (and subsequent posts) you seem to imply that god as you perceive him is clearly defined. what are you basing this on? i am not familiar with the whole of the bible, so i wonder if the bible clearly defines god? for example, does the bible explicitly state that god is omniscient, omnipotent, eternal, etc? if so, does the bible ...[text shortened]... dictionary several times, rather than the bible, which led me to ask why you were out-sourcing.

Revelation 19:6 - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Romans 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

1 Timothy 1:17 - Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Mind naming a few?

Sure. Zeus, Quetzalcotl, Ra, Kwangkung, Thor. If you believe that Allah is a different god from Yahweh, then Allah as well. Shoot since all you've got is a constructed definition, anybody can claim to know a god and then say that it is omnipotent.

Where did you hear this? Omnipotence is defined as "Having unlimited or universal power."

Oh, so then in your view God can create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it. Square circles? No problem. God can sin? God can worship Muffy?

BTW way notice the adjectives "unlimited" and "universal." When the dictionary says "unlimited" it clearly means it in a natural sense. The dictionary is not a spiritual book (well, except for you perhaps). Your idol by definition is unlimited in the natural. "Universal" implies that his omnipotence has meaning over the universe, i.e. the natural. I've agreed all along that your idol can put on a nice show in the natural and has a little power in the supernatural as well. However, in the super-spiritual, which encompasses the natural and the supernatural, your idol has no power. In fact, he has no defintion because it is outside your idol's reality. It is only by Muffy entering the supernatural that God can perceive Muffy and worship Muffy. You didn't think that such an insecure deity as God would admit in his book to worshipping Muffy did you?

On what substance do you base this? 2 Opinions 5:4 from Murphy's law? Your argument has no merit, because God and Muffy cannot exist simutaneously.

Again your idol's omnipotence is a characteristic that only has definition in the natural. Muffy is omnipotent in the natural as well, but really Muffy is so much more than this. Muffy's powers extend beyond the defintion of omnipotence into the supernatural and super-spiritual realms, places where omnipotence lacks definition.

If you believe in God you cannot believe in Muffy, and visa versa.

Au contraire, if you believe in God you must believe in Muffy by definition. To deny Muffy is to deny God's creation and foundation, and thus it is to deny God.

Where do you get your definition of Muffy?

The same way you got your definition of God: personal revelation.

It definately is not.

Good then I expect you will desist with using it as the final standard of what is real and what is not, unless you want to be non-existent again.

Zeus is defined as "The God of Greek mythology". A myth is fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.

And your god is the "god of Hebrew mythology."

Well you don't believe the Bible. It also seems you don't believe the dictionary either. Which means you concoct your own definitions for words to ensure that you are never wrong.

I don't believe in your interpretation of the Bible. I know that the Bible exists. I also know that different dictionaries exist. The problem is that you use the Bible and dictionaries for purposes which are beyond their scope.

Which means you concoct your own definitions for words to ensure that you are never wrong.

Ever tried to compete with your own reflection? That's all I'm doing. With the education you have already, this should have sunken in a few pages ago.

What makes you think that I have finished studying at the age of 19?


I was wondering if you had studied at all.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I have a Christian life view. Thus I have a Christian view of God. Thus I believe that God is the eternal creator of the universe. I believe that God created man in His own image.

The skeptics have asked me the following question. “If God created the universe, then who created God?” This question is clearly idiotic. As I see it, God is eternal by defin ...[text shortened]... reveals a special aspect of Himself: His love.

Anyone have other views regarding this issue?

Sir, you have managed to apply reason where once i found none! This is one of the most well thought out posts i've ever read at RHP, if i could rec it more than once i would.

I find your beliefs seem to extend beyond Christianity though. I find myself agreeing with your perspective, even though i am not a christian (I am baptised catholic, though i consider myself atheist).

One thing you have not included in this post, however, is the concept of the after life.

My existence on this earth has taught me one thing, nothing is wasted. When we die, everything that we are (physically) is broken down and absorbed by something else, thus recycling life in a seemingly endless cycle. I realize my view of life might be limited (i only have my experience of this earth to go by) but even when we look to the stars we see the same thing, a constant process of creation and destruction.

This has led me to believe that my 'Soul' or 'being', must also be recylced in a similar manner, as i cannot find a single example of something that, when destroyed, does not then become something else. So my question to you is this...

Why would the creator, a being who created such a perfectly self sustaining Universe, then choose to remove the souls of every Human to a special place called Heaven, when the rest of his creation is recylced endlessly on into eternity so perfectly? Further more, what would the point in doing that be? It seems totally out of sink with the whole of his creation.

I think I am converting to Muffyism.

There is no meta-God but Muffy, and telerion is His/Her/It's prophet!

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I think I am converting to Muffyism.

There is no meta-God but Muffy, and telerion is His/Her/It's prophet!

Amen, Brother Thousand.

I exhort you to spread the good news, but be careful: Muffy is not a big god any more than God is a big human. (oh the irony.) 🙂

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I think I am converting to Muffyism.

There is no meta-God but Muffy, and telerion is His/Her/It's prophet!

Refer to the thread 'Why Muffy does not exist".

Personally I'd rather be a "Christian" than a 'Muffin" 😉

Originally posted by telerion
Amen, Brother Thousand.

I exhort you to spread the good news, but be careful: Muffy is not a big god any more than God is a big human. (oh the irony.) 🙂

Does this make you the Muffin Man?

Originally posted by marinakatomb
Sir, you have managed to apply reason where once i found none! This is one of the most well thought out posts i've ever read at RHP, if i could rec it more than once i would.

I find your beliefs seem to extend beyond Christianity though. I find myself agreeing with your perspective, even though i am not a christian (I am baptised catholic, though i ...[text shortened]... the point in doing that be? It seems totally out of sink with the whole of his creation.

I believe that all the answers are found in God's word.

2 Peter 3:13 - Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The world we live in has been totally corrupted by sin. Thus I believe that God is preparing a new heaven and a new earth in which all those will dwell whose garments have been washed in the blood of the lamb. It will be heaven because there will no longer be any sin.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I believe that all the answers are found in God's word.

[b]2 Peter 3:13 - Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The world we live in has been totally corrupted by sin. Thus I believe that God is preparing a new heaven and a new earth in which all those will dwell whose ...[text shortened]... been washed in the blood of the lamb. It will be heaven because there will no longer be any sin.[/b]

sounds messy... i like my shirts blood free thank you....

Originally posted by xxxenophobe
sounds messy... i like my shirts blood free thank you....

I am talking about it in a spiritual sense.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I believe that all the answers are found in God's word.

[b]2 Peter 3:13 - Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The world we live in has been totally corrupted by sin. Thus I believe that God is preparing a new heaven and a new earth in which all those will dwell whose ...[text shortened]... been washed in the blood of the lamb. It will be heaven because there will no longer be any sin.[/b]

How can something be totally without sin? When you enter heaven do you have your free will removed? More to the point, how will happiness be any good if there is no sadness to counter balance it? Happiness doesn't mean anything with out sadness, the same thing applies to sin.

Originally posted by marinakatomb
How can something be totally without sin? When you enter heaven do you have your free will removed? More to the point, how will happiness be any good if there is no sadness to counter balance it? Happiness doesn't mean anything with out sadness, the same thing applies to sin.

This is what makes Heaven such a wonderful place. In Heaven there will no longer be any sin, and only those who have confessed their sins and forsaken them on earth will have the privelage of going to Heaven. Obviously those who are living in sin don't think that Heaven is a nice place because they would really feel 'out' in a place where there is no sin.

I think free-will is an earthly concept. But I still can't see why we won't have a free-will in Heaven. Besides, I would gather that all those in Heaven would want to be there. Free will will not be a problem for those that have given their lives to God. Their free-will is a will aimed at doing God's will.

I think that the happiness we experience on earth is incomparible to the happiness in Heaven. Happiness on earth is not really genuine because most of the time it is only fleeting pleasure. In Heaven the happiness will be never-ending. I don't think that happiness in Heaven will need to be counter balanced by sadness as it might seem to happen on earth. I think the happiness in Heaven will be genuine happiness and will be so great that the best form of happiness of earth will probably be sadness in Heaven and thus the happiness on earth would act as the counter-balance of sadness in Heaven.

I don't quite get what you mean with the same applying to sin.

Originally posted by dj2becker
This is what makes Heaven such a wonderful place. In Heaven there will no longer be any sin, and only those who have confessed their sins and forsaken them on earth will have the privelage of going to Heaven. Obviously those who are living in sin don't think that Heaven is a nice place because they would really feel 'out' in a place where there is no si ...[text shortened]... alance of sadness in Heaven.

I don't quite get what you mean with the same applying to sin.

If your God can create a world in which every one has free will, but chooses not to sin, a world which is so blissful it is called "heaven," why didn't he bother making it in the first place? Why did God bother making fake happiness? This is all so very silly.