1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    29 Mar '14 10:02
    Got bread and cheese?

    Got bread and cheese? Good. Got a roof over your head and a warm bed? Good. Got a job and means of transportation? Good. Got friends? John 15:13, "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."

    No Roman Centurion [in command of one hundred men] took Christ's Life. Christ dismissed His Spirit when the work of propitiating [satisfying] God's Justice and Righteousness [Divine Integrity] in order to make possible the reconciliation of depraved, helpless and hopeless mankind to God the Father was done. Christ's Unfailing Love was His motivation.

    He loved us while we were at enmity with Him and Royal Family Member Status was still potential. You, personally, are the object of God's perfect plan? If there is a God who has revealed Himself and who has a perfect plan for every human being, doesn't it stand to reason that you owe God a hearing? Nothing is required except an open mind to what God says through His Word. We have nothing in this world to give except a hearing. It's your decision. The consequences are eternal....

    "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Acts 16:31 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." John 1:12
    John 15:13, "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."
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    29 Mar '14 11:05
    Do you think that when atheists read your many, many posts they are

    A) more drawn to god, jesus and religion in general
    B) less drawn to god, jesus and religion in general
    C) neither

    ?
  3. SubscriberProper Knob
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    29 Mar '14 12:11
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Do you think that when atheists read your many, many posts they are

    A) more drawn to god, jesus and religion in general
    B) less drawn to god, jesus and religion in general
    C) neither

    ?
    Atheists read GB's posts?
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    29 Mar '14 12:12
    Yes, it's like a terrible car accident. You don't want to look, but you do it anyway.
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    29 Mar '14 12:301 edit
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Do you think that when atheists read your many, many posts they are

    A) more drawn to god, jesus and religion in general
    B) less drawn to god, jesus and religion in general
    C) neither

    ?
    Great King Rat, that is a person by person matter.
    And it may take much time. Some former atheists do become Christians.

    Some who want to be turned off will be turned off.
    Some who want to be turned on to God will be turned on.

    This is a person by person matter.
    We do not need to keep statistics on such reactions.

    When I was a young college student I use to go down to what was then Christian coffee houses in the 70s in the city of Philadelphia. Christians would be seated where there was cider or coffee being served. And all kinds of young people would come in off the street.

    Many intellectuals came in and sat down to argue with these sincere Christians. I didn't know what to believe yet. I remember I would always look intensely into the faces of the Christians and ask myself -

    "Look at his face. Is he or she telling the truth? Do they REALLY believe these things that they are saying ?"

    I always found myself trying to figure out how these Christians could believe these matter about Jesus Christ. I would scrutinize their faces to see if they were telling me what they really believed or were trying to sell me some false merchandise.

    Some of us apparently were compelled to believe.
    Some of us were not.
    Praise the Lord.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Mar '14 12:45
    Originally posted by sonship
    Great King Rat, that is a person by person matter.
    And it may take much time. Some former atheists do become Christians.

    Some who want to be turned off will be turned off.
    Some who want to be turned on to God will be turned on.
    So you support any and all efforts to proselytise even when ~ and even you think ~ they are counterproductive and alienating?
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    29 Mar '14 12:47
    Originally posted by sonship
    Great King Rat, that is a person by person matter.

    Some who want to be turned off will be turned off.
    Some who want to be turned on to God will be turned on.

    This is a person by person matter.
    We do not need to keep statistics on such reactions.

    When I was a young college student I use to go down to what was then Christian coffee houses in ...[text shortened]... Some of us apparently were compelled to believe.
    Some of us were not.
    Praise the Lord.
    I agree with most everything you say here, but it's not quite answering my question.

    I'm not talking about people who want to be turned on or off. I'm talking talking about people who are objectively reading GBs posts.

    I remember I would always look intensely into the faces of the Christians and ask myself -

    "Look at his face. Is he or she telling the truth? Do they REALLY believe these things that they are saying ?"


    This is a bit more to the point. In this comparison GB to me comes across as a lying, deceitful Christian and as such damages religion and specifically Christianity.

    Although I disagree with pretty much everything you write within these pages concerning spirituality, I do respect your thoughtfulness and candor. The exact opposite is true of GB, which is why I think he is damaging to Christianity.

    Do you not think that how and what he writes is counterproductive? Because as an atheist I can tell you that it's people like him that push me further and further away from understanding the theist point of view. One of the reasons I come here is to understand you people's POV concerning religion (which, incidentally, is why I think it's a shame there are almost no muslims and other religions here). GB is accomplishing the exact opposite.

    Sorry, bit of a rambling post.
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    29 Mar '14 12:521 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    So you support any and all efforts to proselytise even when ~ and even you think ~ they are counterproductive and alienating?
    So you support any and all efforts to proselytise even when ~ and even you think ~ they are counterproductive and alienating?


    Not necessarily do I think the gospel should be announced to some who have stated clearly that they do not want to Lord Jesus.

    But this is a different kind of public forum. And it is not reasonable to assume that all preachers will simply STOP posting just because some atheist says he doesn't want to hear any more.

    So you simply step out of the line. The next person may be interested.

    If it were door to door ministry, of course once a door slams close in your face there is no good reason to continue to bother that household.

    This is the Internet public forum.
    Its a new and different kind of medium.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Mar '14 12:54
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    ... GB to me comes across as a lying, deceitful Christian and as such damages religion and specifically Christianity. Although I disagree with pretty much everything you write within these pages concerning spirituality, I do respect your thoughtfulness and candor. The exact opposite is true of GB, which is why I think he is damaging to Christianity.
    Even back when I was a Christian, I could never really work out what fellow Christians like Grampy Bobby thought they were up to and what they thought they were achieving. Looking back, I now see it as preening rather than preaching. And if I am right, and it is preening, then it is not counterproductive if the preener's objective is to feel preened.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Mar '14 12:57
    Originally posted by sonship
    But this is a different kind of public forum. And it is not reasonable to assume that all preachers will simply STOP posting just because some atheist says he doesn't want to hear any more.
    Great King Rat didn't ask anyone to stop. He asked the OP poster to reflect on whether he alienates rather than persuades with his attempts to preach.
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    29 Mar '14 13:231 edit
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    I agree with most everything you say here, but it's not quite answering my question.


    What was the question I messed ?


    I'm not talking about people who want to be turned on or off. I'm talking talking about people who are objectively reading GBs posts.


    I don't know what you're asking. But you can always stop reading.
    How can you stop anyone from posting ?

    Hey, there's people I wish, after six years, would simply stop posting.
    Too bad for me.
    They have every right to keep posting. Am I right ?


    sonship:
    I remember I would always look intensely into the faces of the Christians and ask myself -

    "Look at his face. Is he or she telling the truth? Do they REALLY believe these things that they are saying ?"


    GKR:
    This is a bit more to the point. In this comparison GB to me comes across as a lying, deceitful Christian and as such damages religion and specifically Christianity.


    That's one man's opinion.

    Are you going to try to get RHP to introduce a new rule?

    No Christian shall post in a manner detrimental to the furtherance of the Christian mission to spread the faith.

    Some Forums may have such a rule. This one is very free style and quite unmoderated as they come.

    If you are concerned about a more effective presentation of the Gospel, you could always show by example how you think it should be done.


    Although I disagree with pretty much everything you write within these pages concerning spirituality, I do respect your thoughtfulness and candor. The exact opposite is true of GB, which is why I think he is damaging to Christianity.


    I try to put myself a little bit back into the frame of mind I was in when I was seeking to know if God was real.

    It takes a long time to teach anyone. Many people are not ready to be taught on personal matters like this. And pretty much no one wants to be treated like they are a blank sheet of white paper with nothing.

    When you approach people like they are without any knowledge or any experience like a blank sheet of white paper ready to be written all over, it does annoy some folks.

    GB is an older man than I. He may be an older Christian also. We all have our respective styles. I am sure his heart is very good towards his readers.

    We all have different styles of participating.

    Jesus had twelve disciples. The leader Peter was a character and made many mistakes. And none of the others were perfect. James and John could get angry. Thomas could be doubtful. Somehow they all got perfected in time by their Master.

    Between the years 1960 and 1972 Christians came across my path and told me things. Some I never got to know well. I can't say any were perfect people.

    One guy told me that I would never have rest until I came to Jesus. But he did not say it in a belligerent manner. He said it in a caring manner. But I had a question mark about him because he had a girlfriend. And I wondered what a Christian was doing with a casual romantic girlfriend.

    Anyway, I picked up a little truth from here and from there. I didn't wait for the perfect Christian to come by. I dealt with only the truth or not the truth.

    And that is what I would advise you to think about, the message more than the messengers.


    Do you not think that how and what he writes is counterproductive?


    It is not for me to judge.
    Maybe it is just what some people need.

    It is not my style, usually.


    Because as an atheist I can tell you that it's people like him that push me further and further away from understanding the theist point of view. One of the reasons I come here is to understand you people's POV concerning religion (which, incidentally, is why I think it's a shame there are almost no muslims and other religions here). GB is accomplishing the exact opposite.


    I think that he is a praying man. And though you may be annoyed, I would wager that your name is being mentioned before God with this poster.

    Look - HOW you come to Jesus is secondary.
    That you COME to Jesus .... THAT'S what is most important.
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    29 Mar '14 13:323 edits
    I think one day God will say to some of us -

    " I sent you a young person, and you didn't want to listen. You thought in your heart that he was too young.

    After some time I sent you an old person. And you thought that that person was old fashion. What to they know?

    I sent you a intellectual person and you didn't like the way she spoke to you. After some time I sent you a simpler person, a plain speaking person. You didn't listen then either.

    I sent you all kinds of different people over the course of your life - smart, simple, old, young, rich, poor, men, women, educated, uneducated, good, not so good ... I sent you many of my people to tell you of the love of Jesus.

    Now you are no longer in time. You are now in eternity with your decision."

    It is something to think on, I think. "What will I do with Jesus Christ?"
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    29 Mar '14 13:42
    Originally posted by FMF
    Great King Rat didn't ask anyone to stop. He asked the OP poster to reflect on whether he alienates rather than persuades with his attempts to preach.
    Candidly, I really don't recall a single time over the last nine years wherein any atheist showed any type of conciliatory acceptance toward a Christian's message/delivery.

    I've seen all manner of pandering, of efforts to reason, concession and etc., by Christians toward atheists and their world view, yet even then, no reciprocity.

    Eventually, it's all waves hitting the shore: neither yielding.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Mar '14 13:46
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Candidly, I really don't recall a single time over the last nine years wherein any atheist showed any type of conciliatory acceptance toward a Christian's message/delivery.
    Should Christians ever reflect on whether their approach is counterproductive, in your view?
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Mar '14 13:49
    Originally posted by sonship
    I agree with most everything you say here, but it's not quite answering my question.


    What was the question I messed ?


    I'm not talking about people who want to be turned on or off. I'm talking talking about people who are objectively reading GBs posts.


    I don't know what you're asking. But you can always stop rea ...[text shortened]... come to Jesus is secondary.
    That you [b]COME
    to Jesus .... THAT'S what is most important.[/b]
    You appear to be taking great care not to be seen to be advising a fellow Christian poster to reflect on what may be a counterproductive and alienating approach.
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