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25 Nov 21
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,”
(Romans 8:1)
This is the New International Version.
Also excellent verses from the same chapter:
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
(Romans 8:8-10)
This is the King James Version.
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@pb1022 saidIf this had not been written by that manic busybody Paul the Interloper, this would be Good News for this reason:
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,”
(Romans 8:1)
This is the New International Version.
Also excellent verses from the same chapter:
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Chr ...[text shortened]... the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
(Romans 8:8-10)
This is the King James Version.
If Christ is God and God is omnipresent, then we are all in Christ, whether we believe in Him or not.
Hallelujah! Saved from an imaginary condemnation that never existed in the first place!
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25 Nov 21
@kevin-eleven saidI believe God is omnipresent but I don’t think that means he’s *in* everyone. If He were, there’d be no need to be born of the Spirit as Jesus Christ said in the Gospel of John.
If this had not been written by that manic busybody Paul the Interloper, this would be Good News for this reason:
If Christ is God and God is omnipresent, then we are all in Christ, whether we believe in Him or not.
Hallelujah! Saved from an imaginary condemnation that never existed in the first place!
And the condemnation is real because we’re all sinners and all fall short of God’s standard of perfection. There’s a good saying, though I believe its author is unknown:
Good people aren’t in Heaven. Forgiven sinners are.
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26 Nov 21
3 edits
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,”
You know the "no condemnation" refers mainly, I believe, to the SELF condemnation expressed in the immediately previous section in chapter 7.
"But I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (7:23,24)
Paul, a religious man striving to do what his mind told him (in accordance with God's commandments) was dragged down by the sin dwelling in his flesh. This weakness was a death to him. It also made him condemn himself and cry out to be delivered from that wretched condition of a failure.
Romans 8:1 speaks of how "the law of the Spirit of life" by which he learned to walk obliterates the self condemnation and frees him from the feeling of utter wretchedness.
The "WHO" who will deliver him from the body of this wretched death is Christ Jesus the Spirit of divine life with the law of the Spirit of life. This anticipated deliverance from self condemnation is in the cry:
"Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
In the Lord Christ Jesus is a more powerful law which is able to free us - the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus, freeing us from self condemnation in the realm of Jesus.
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26 Nov 21
2 edits
(Romans 8:1)
This is the New International Version.
Also excellent verses from the same chapter:
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
(Romans 8:8-10)
This is the King James Version.
To both the KJV and definitely the NIV I prefer the Recovery Version which I think distinguishes when needed the regenerated human [small s] spirit from the Third Person of the Triune God, the [capital S] Spirit.
Of course it is a blended reality because "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17). And the Holy Spirit joins, unites, blends, and inhabits the [Christian's] human spirit.
"The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." (Rom. 8:16)
The Recovery Version is helpful in specifying probably how the two spirits are spoken of though they are united in the believers in Christ.
Here is how it reads in the RcV:
"And those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness."
This holds to the truth that the Holy Spirit is God and is Christ in another form.
And it hold to the revelation that Christ is joined to the human spirit that has been "born of the Spirit" in John 3. And it is consistent with the Spirit bears witness with our spirit in Romans 8:16 coming.
What do you think?
The RcV has small s spirit in the verses which clearly show a contrast between two human parts.
Ie - "according to the flesh" verses "according to the spirit"
"not in the flesh, but in the spirit".
However the Triune God is meant in "indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you, Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you . . . "
The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ is Christ. That is the Triune God indwelling the believers in Christ. Indwelling them by being joined to their regenerated human spirit.
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26 Nov 21
Good people aren’t in Heaven. Forgiven sinners are.
But if all the saved abandon the earth and go away to heaven then the enemy of God will laugh.
We have to remind him it is "Your kingdom come" rather than "Your kingdom go".
Christians should stop talking like all His people go to Heaven forever.
It is time, high time, to realize His kingdom comes to earth with eventually a new heaven and a new earth.
No room anywhere for Satan except in the lake of fire.
26 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidPaul is a mere shadow of Jesus Christ. Pauls teachings are not as powerful as the teachings of Jesus Christ. If a Christian gravitates to the teachings Paul and shy away from the teachings of Christ as many Christians do, then they are not mature Christians and cannot handle or digest the strong meat of the Word of God and the word of God, and are infant Christians who need to be taught about righteousness and good and evil, and the keeping of the commandments.
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,”
(Romans 8:1)
This is the New International Version.
Also excellent verses from the same chapter:
“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Chr ...[text shortened]... the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
(Romans 8:8-10)
This is the King James Version.
Jesus is the authority in the bible. Those who worship the one sent are committing idolatry, and many Christians are guilty of this. They worship the one sent and the one that sends is griven mere mouth worship. The Gospel of Jesus Christ contains the most powerful teachings in the bible. This Gospel speaks in crystal clear language what a man must do to see the Kingdom of God. Failure to follow this Gospel Message of Christ leads to damnation.
The most powerful teaching in the bible comes from the only true authority, Jesus Christ. Here is a sample
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:12-15 KJV)
Powerful words.
Failure to listen and obey leads to damnation
Jesus will return, and He is the authority
The Alpha and Omega , The Everything
Those who keep the commandments get life
All others get death
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26 Nov 21
2 edits
If Christ is God and God is omnipresent, then we are all in Christ, whether we believe in Him or not.
The New Testament doesn't say an omnipresent Christ means we all are in Christ, whether we believe in Him or not.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God . . . " (John 1:12)
You want to expand that to mean as many as received Him and also as many as rejected Him. But the number God grants to become children of God are the number that received Him who "to those who believe into His name".
You wish to extend it to include to those also who refused to believe into His name.
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26 Nov 21
2 edits
If Christ is God and God is omnipresent, then we are all in Christ, whether we believe in Him or not.
I might say there are some who have received Him and maybe do not realize that much about this. God is very merciful concerning the light that one had. But universally everyone in Christ because God is omnipotent can't be if so many clear statements in the Bible are true.
"And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:12,13)
You wish to expand that beyond limit. Ie. "He who has the Son has the life and also he who refuses to have the Son also has the life." That is your invention. You should drop it and take what the NT says.
"I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God" (v.13)
You are trying to expand that to mean John writes that they have eternal life - those who believe into the name of the Son of God and also those who refuse to believe into the name of the Son of God because the Son of God is omnipresent.
It better to take what it says.
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26 Nov 21
@sonship
I don’t agree with this statement of yours at all:
<<You know the "no condemnation" refers mainly, I believe, to the SELF condemnation expressed in the immediately previous section in chapter 7. >>
I go by what the text says. The text doesn’t say self condemnation.
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26 Nov 21
@sonship
<<It is time, high time, to realize His kingdom comes to earth with eventually a new heaven and a new earth.>>
Yes, I think Revelation is clear that one day there will be a new Heaven and a new earth. But in the meantime, forgiven sinners go to Heaven to be with the Lord. I think the Holy Bible is pretty clear about that.
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26 Nov 21
@Rajk999
As I said in another thread, I think you discount or don’t properly understand the role and power of God’s Holy Spirit in indwelling a believer.
It’s the Holy Spirit that enables a believer to break free from sinful habits, but every Christian will still commit sin after accepting Christ. However the number and frequency of sins committed ought to be greatly reduced, especially if a believer empowers the indwelt Holy Spirit by seeking first the Kingdom of God and walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
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26 Nov 21
@sonship
Just another point on this paragraph you wrote:
<<You know the "no condemnation" refers mainly, I believe, to the SELF condemnation expressed in the immediately previous section in chapter 7.>>
The reason there is “no condemnation” from God is because once someone accepts Jesus Christ and believes in Jesus Christ and in His Resurrection, all of the new believer’s sins have been forgiven. That’s why there is no condemnation. I think you’re reading Romans 8:1 as self condemnation is incorrect but you’re certainly free to have your opinion on that, as am I.
26 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidJust about nothing you say is biblical. It all sounds like church doctrine.
@sonship
<<It is time, high time, to realize His kingdom comes to earth with eventually a new heaven and a new earth.>>
Yes, I think Revelation is clear that one day there will be a new Heaven and a new earth. But in the meantime, forgiven sinners go to Heaven to be with the Lord. I think the Holy Bible is pretty clear about that.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)
26 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidYou dont understand what the Holy Spirits is. period.
@Rajk999
As I said in another thread, I think you discount or don’t properly understand the role and power of God’s Holy Spirit in indwelling a believer.
It’s the Holy Spirit that enables a believer to break free from sinful habits, but every Christian will still commit sin after accepting Christ. However the number and frequency of sins committed ought to be greatly reduc ...[text shortened]... welt Holy Spirit by seeking first the Kingdom of God and walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.