Originally posted by robbie carrobie yes how would god feel about his son being revered through pagan symbolism!
Surely you are not claiming your personal opinion about Indonesian Christians is the same as God's perspective?
I can sort of imagine your God figure being upset about "paganism", but I always thought the Christian perspective was that God could see what was in people's hearts.
If He were to look into the hearts of Indonesian Christians he would not find "paganism" but would find instead Christians who see a crucifix as a representation of the cross on which Jesus died and their reverence for His sacrifice.
Originally posted by FMF Surely you are not claiming your personal opinion about Indonesian Christians is the same as God's perspective?
I can sort of imagine your God figure being upset about "paganism", but I always thought the Christian perspective was that God could see what was in people's hearts.
If He were to look into the hearts of Indonesian Christians he would not find ...[text shortened]... ifix as a representation of the cross on which Jesus died and their reverence for His sacrifice.
its a simple question effhim, if you had a precious gift that you gave to someone and they started to venerate it with elements that you had strictly forbade the use of, would you then approve of the matter?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie its a simple question effhim, if you had a precious gift that you gave to someone and they started to venerate it with elements that you had strictly forbade the use of, would you then approve of the matter?
I think your God figure would look into the hearts of Indonesian Christians and would not find any "paganism". With your undisguised ethnocentrism [demonstrated amply on the "Happy Easter" thread], I don't think you can claim to have "God's perspective" at all, robbie. At least, not the Christian God figure I was associated with in the past. That God figure, as I recall, was always looking into people's hearts rather than looking at inanimate objects and how they are deployed in acts of "TrueChristian" one-up-manship.
Originally posted by FMF I think your God figure would look into the hearts of Indonesian Christians and would not find any "paganism". With your undisguised ethnocentrism [demonstrated amply on the "Happy Easter" thread], I don't think you can claim to have "God's perspective" at all, robbie. At least, not the Christian God figure I was associated with in the past. That God figure, as ...[text shortened]... ooking at inanimate objects and how they are deployed in acts of "TrueChristian" one-up-manship.
I have not claimed anything, in fact I have merely pointed out that you think that if you douse everything with holy water it magically becomes Christian.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have not claimed anything, in fact I have merely pointed out that you think thats its you douse everything with holy water it magically become Christian.
I haven't mentioned "holy water", not even once ~ because there is no such thing. It is you who has mentioned "holy water" over and over again. A symbol only has the meaning that people attach to it. It is a basic human thing: nothing happens "magically" with symbols.
Originally posted by FMF I haven't mentioned "holy water", not even once ~ because there is no such thing. It is you who has mentioned "holy water" over and over again. A symbol only has the meaning that people attach to it. It is a basic human thing: nothing happens "magically" with symbols.
its an entirely appropriate expression to use for the process of assigning values to symbols irrespective of their historical context. Perhaps we should be free to imbue anything from antiquity with any meaning we desire and hope that its historical content will simply wash away.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie its an entirely appropriate expression to use for the process of assigning values to symbols irrespective of their historical context. Perhaps we should be free to imbue anything from antiquity with any meaning we desire and hope that its historical content will simply wash away.
It is your prerogative to assign whatever meaning you want to "holy water". I invest no meaning in it as an object nor as a symbol. You seem to be mentioning it a lot. You may believe that "holy water" can "wash away" things; I don't.
Originally posted by whodey As I sit here worshipping in my home at the alter of my self constructed Easter bunny and offering sacrifices to the this god of fertility, I just thought I would wish everyone a happy Easter, except for robbie so as not to offend him. 😵
That wasn't nice. Your posting. I hope rob finds the humor in it. 🙂
Originally posted by Pudgenik That wasn't nice. Your posting. I hope rob finds the humor in it. 🙂
Its ok, I will get some of FMF's Holy water and douse myself with it, by next Easter I should be fully saturated and 'Christinised' to the point where I can celebrate Easter.😵
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Its ok, I will get some of FMF's Holy water and douse myself with it, by next Easter I should be fully saturated and 'Christinised' to the point where I can celebrate Easter.😵
I don't think your name made it to "my favorite crazies" list yet. So you haven't been properly christened yet, ha, ha
Originally posted by Pudgenik I don't think your name made it to "my favorite crazies" list yet. So you haven't been properly christened yet, ha, ha
Perhaps you are correct but Effhims Holy water has magical properties, it can erase three thousand years of antiquity and change a pagan element into a Christian one!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Perhaps you are correct but Effhims Holy water has magical properties, it can erase three thousand years of antiquity and change a pagan element into a Christian one!
You keep mentioning "FMF's holy water" but anyone who has read our discussion will know that it is an invention of yours and you are using it avoid addressing the arguments I have made. The only "pagan element" in a crucifix is the one invested in it by "pagans" or by non-pagans who invest a "pagan element" meaning in it. The crucifix itself is an inanimate object and has no intrinsic meaning. Repeating your "FMF's holy water" soundbite over and over and over again across different threads does not address my point at all.
Happy Easter to everyone but robbie
20 Apr '14 15:34
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