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Originally posted by ZahlanziWell It should be noted that (and tone on the internets is always hard) that
to be fair, the event is where a group of people where nice to another group of people. the latter would have starved to death otherwise.
we do not know if that particular group of europeans killed the natives who gave them food. so why do you associate one (of the few) nice interaction between europeans and natives with the following (not resulting) genocide?
my op was more mild ribbing than serious.
However I would view it as ironic that a civilisation should hold an annual
celebration of having received help from a peoples they nearly exterminated.
And if it is to have a meaning other than being an excuse to get together the
people you care about and enjoy each others company over good food...
and hey, that's one of the things I love best about the Christmas holidays, so
I'm all for that...
Then it probably should be remembered at this time that the Native Americans
WERE nearly wiped out, and were, and sometimes still are, persecuted and
disenfranchised.
And yes, 'thanksgiving' celebrations do go back a long way, and are not exclusive
to North America...
However history goes back way way further, and there are far more people who
don't celebrate it. And the most famous, and enthusiastic celebrants are the North
Americans.
And they have this history. Everyone has history they can be ashamed of, and
the big ticket items in the history of the USA are Slavery, and the persecution
of Native Americans.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm telling on you to your cult leaders that you celebrate!
Oh its big, but the thing is, we don't need a special day to do it, we do it every day. 😀
Technically it is a secular holiday that is why the govt does it once a year. But that is good, if you did it every day then you might stop being truly greatful for your family.
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Originally posted by RBHILLThe Watchtower Bible and tract society of Pennsylvania incorporated (peace be upon it) have always advocated eating together as a family, infact we go a step further and advocate a family worship evening!
I'm telling on you to your cult leaders that you celebrate!
Technically it is a secular holiday that is why the govt does it once a year. But that is good, if you did it every day then you might stop being truly greatful for your family.
Originally posted by googlefudgeHowever I would view it as ironic that a civilisation should hold an annual
Well It should be noted that (and tone on the internets is always hard) that
my op was more mild ribbing than serious.
However I would view it as ironic that a civilisation should hold an annual
celebration of having received help from a peoples they nearly exterminated.
And if it is to have a meaning other than being an excuse to get together ...[text shortened]... g ticket items in the history of the USA are Slavery, and the persecution
of Native Americans.
celebration of having received help from a peoples they nearly exterminated.
The insertion of the relationship established with the got-here-from-there-just-a-little-before-you-did-Native Americans was a secondary thought.
While the support the first settlers received was also a source of thankfulness, the celebration was fully formed long before the experience of that support.
Thanksgiving itself was merely a continuation of the practices long-exercised by both the Puritans and the Pilgrims from their home countries, regardless of the extensions they realized once they came here.
Everyone has history they can be ashamed of, and the big ticket items in the history of the USA are Slavery, and the persecution of Native Americans.
While I don't discount these atrocities as shameful, I consider the abuse of charter as far outstripping any and all of these other abuses.
Founded to be both a haven and beacon for religious freedom we have instead become a bloated prostitute/host for every vice imaginable.
We don't broadcast spiritual freedom; we're much more suited for broadcasting porn.
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Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]However I would view it as ironic that a civilisation should hold an annual
celebration of having received help from a peoples they nearly exterminated.
The insertion of the relationship established with the got-here-from-there-just-a-little-before-you-did-Native Americans was a secondary thought.
While the support the first settlers received ...[text shortened]... aginable.
We don't broadcast spiritual freedom; we're much more suited for broadcasting porn.[/b]
... with the got-here-from-there-just-a-little-before-you-did-Native Americans ....
Huh?
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHAsia. Sometime between 12 and 40 thousand years ago.
Where do you think the "Native" Americans came from?
Compared with Europeans arriving post-Columbus from 500 years ago onwards.
Meaning that at the very lowest estimate they have been in America 24 times longer
than Europeans have...
Originally posted by googlefudgeSo, as I said, they simply got there--- and survived--- prior to the folks currently there.
Asia. Sometime between 12 and 40 thousand years ago.
Compared with Europeans arriving post-Columbus from 500 years ago onwards.
Meaning that at the very lowest estimate they have been in America 24 times longer
than Europeans have...
It's all the same under the skin.
Originally posted by googlefudgeGood link, thanks.
If you want something fun to do this evening,
Nasa is currently hosting a live google + hangout on comet ISON passing the sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q03I1B_yrPg
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy.html
Started 18:00 UTC
Here's another one from a different perspective, showing the trajectory...
http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/comet_ison/
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Originally posted by googlefudge"However I would view it as ironic that a civilisation should hold an annual
Well It should be noted that (and tone on the internets is always hard) that
my op was more mild ribbing than serious.
However I would view it as ironic that a civilisation should hold an annual
celebration of having received help from a peoples they nearly exterminated.
And if it is to have a meaning other than being an excuse to get together ...[text shortened]... g ticket items in the history of the USA are Slavery, and the persecution
of Native Americans.
celebration of having received help from a peoples they nearly exterminated."
i don't believe that their thanksgiving is about that. if it is, it would be outrageously shameless.
the correct thing to do though is to stop telling that story and to acknowledge what their ancestors did the the natives. indeed, the first impulse when being reminded of that is to instantly compare how some natives helped some strangers even if they didn't have to and how the americans genocided them afterwards even if they didn't have to.
hate to give a nazi analogy, but is anyone not cringing at a similar situation where, had the nazi succeeded in killing the jews, they would have a celebration day where they stuff their faces and tell their children the one time a bunch of jews were nice to some germans?