Hebrews 10:26 - Context & Questions

Originally posted by sonship

I made a very bad typo in quoting this verse.

Here is the correction below:

"It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication that does [NOT] (edited) even occur among the Gentiles, that someone has his stepmother." (1 Cor. 5:1)

Scoldings from Rajk999 for mistakes in quotation I accept gladly.

Why does Rajk9999 not want to linger longer in Hebrews 10? I thought it was one of his favorite chapters.

Exposed is his teaching for Christians to cast away their boldness.
His way of not entering in the presence of God in full assurance of faith is also exposed.

His failure to uphold the exhortation to enter the Holy of Holies with boldness is exposed.

Apparently, he is concerned that Christians would sin willfully.
But the context of that warning is not to willfully sin by going BACK to trying to be justified by the old covenant sacrifice of bulls and goats.

Compare:

"For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Hebrews 10:4)

"For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice of bulls and goats for sins." (v.26)

It is not right, not possible, not necessary that the Hebrews return to the old covenant.

The anti-boldness, anti - full assurance of faith Rajk999 teaches is against the 10th chapter of Hebrews.

Saying above, " Sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You did not desire nor delight in" ( which are offered according to the law),

He then has said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will." He takes away the first that He may establish the second,

By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all." (vs. 8-10)

The whole chapter warns the Hebrew believers not to return to Old Testament offerings. But rather with boldness they should come forward to God in full assurance of faith. For this faith has great reward in the millennial kingdom. And they should not cast it away doubting that eternal redemption has been accomplished.

"Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward." (v.35)

The boldness of FAITH is the FAITH that God says His righteous ones shall live by -

"But My righteous one shall live by faith; and if he shrinks back, My soul does not delight in him."

But we are not of those who shrink back to ruin but of them who have FAITH to the gaining of the soul." (vs. 38,39)

The reward is the millennial kingdom reward.
The fearful expectation for shrinking back is not the loss of eternal redemption but the loss of the millennial kingdom reward.

In context, adversaries would be those who return to bulls and goats to trample underfoot the blood of Jesus counting it as common - as the blood of bulls and goats.

The discipline to believers who shrink back to the old covenant is to suffer loss of the kingdom to come. Yet they are saved so as through fire.

This chapter 10 of Hebrews is all about pleasing God by boldly entering into His presence to live in faith, assured of the new covenant and assured that we have been sanctified forever by the offering of Jesus Christ on Calvary once and for all.

Originally posted by sonship
Why does Rajk9999 not want to linger longer in [b]Hebrews 10? I thought it was one of his favorite chapters.

Exposed is his teaching for Christians to cast away their boldness.
His way of not entering in the presence of God in full assurance of faith is also exposed.

His failure to uphold the exhortation to enter the Holy of Holies with boldnes ...[text shortened]... hat we have been sanctified forever by the offering of Jesus Christ on Calvary once and for all.[/b]

Lets see what Paul says in the whole of the passage from v 35 about confidence/boldness:

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV)

As usual you deliberately omit passages which you think would incriminate your interpretation... like this part:

...after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Take your time and read it. The whole story is

- The Christian is assured of eternal life.
- but the Christian needs to be patient
- after doing Gods will, then they will receive eternal life.

You and your type constantly demonstrate this lack of patience, as you constantly claim that you already have eternal life. Nobody has that yet. That will be given at the return of Christ.

What you have now is the promise and the assurance that IF you do Gods will THEN you will get eternal llife.

This doctrine is all over the Bible. but you choose not to see it.

" Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward." (Hebrews 10:34)

For you have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise." (v.35) [/b]

There is no reason for me to hide from verse 35. Rather I love it.

"[T]the reward" is something in addition to eternal salvation.
Paul has told us in chapter 9 twice that Christ has obtained an "eternal redemption" (Heb. 9:12) and "an eternal inheritance" (Heb. 9:15)

The great reward and "the promise" certainly is related to the eternal redemption and the eternal inheritance. It is the expected participation in that period of 1,000 years BEFORE the age of eternity begins. (Rev. 20:2;3;4;5;6;7)

The enjoyment of eternal life is a growing, developing, and blossoming and maturing matter. And its stage of enjoyment in the millennial kingdom is a great reward and promise to be obtained through cooperation with grace.

Eternal salvation is obtained through faith, having nothing to do with our works -

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and t his not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;

Not of works that no one should boast." (Eph. 2:8,9)

Reward is the result of works (out of living by faith). Reward is given for the work that the Christian does after we are saved (1 Cor. 3:8,14). We Christians may may not receive a reward but may "suffer loss" even though we are saved. There is no possibility of denying this -

"If anyone's WORK which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a REWARD.

IF anyone's WORK is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)

The unbeliever is of course NOT building anything on the foundation which is Christ [/b] (v.10) [/b] Only Christians are building on the foundation the apostle laid - Christ.

The reward may be forfeited because the Christian is void of the of the work that the Lord approves (1 Cor. 3:15). The reward will be given will be given at the Lord's coming back., according to the Christian's works (Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12; 1 Cor. 4:5),

I am not finished. That is all the time I have at this very moment.

Originally posted by sonship

[b]" Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward." (Hebrews 10:34)

For you have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise." (v.35) [/b]

There is no reason for me to hide from verse 35. Rather I love it.

"[T]the reward" is something in addition to ...[text shortened]... 22:12; 1 Cor. 4:5)[/b],

I am not finished. That is all the time I have at this very moment.[/b]

You are saying you like it with your mouth, but you are not accepting the teachings of that passage.

Paul is saying that you have to be PATIENT ... IF AFTER YOU DO GODS WILL, THEN YOU WILL GET ETERNAL LIFE.

GOT IT ?

Originally posted by Rajk999

What we Christians will receive at the judgment seat of Christ is reward or loss of reward. There is no possibility of anyone denying 1 Cor. 3:14,15 :

"If anyone's WORK which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a REWARD.

IF anyone's WORK is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)

But how could we know that "a reward" to be gained of loss is what Paul means when in Hebrews 10:34,35) ? its a fair question.

" Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward.

For you have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise." (Hebrews 10:34,35)

We are in another book now. How can we know that Paul means the "reward" that the SAVED can receive or lose ?

1.) Eternal salvation is obtained by faith.
It is not the result of having endurance.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith ..." (Eph. 2:8a)

Did the Apostle Paul say by endurance you are saved?
No.
Did the Apostle Paul say through grace by endurance you are saved?
No.

Does any of the above mean the Christian should NOT endure ?
Of course it does not mean that.
It does mean that eternal salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

Not of works [including our endurance] that no one should boast." (Eph. 2:8.9)

Hebrews 10:35 does say that we have need of endurance. But it doesn't teach that we have need of endurance to obtain " eternal redemption" (Heb. 9:12 and "eternal inheritance" (Heb. 9:15) . That is obtained through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all.

Do not let Rajk999 twist my explanation to be "anti-endurance".
I am not anti-endurance. I am upholding that the gift of God is eternal life (Rom. 6:23)

Beware of any dishonest twisting which claims something like this -
"Oh you are a bad Bible teacher. You are a bad Christian because you teach that Christians should not have endurance."

"For you have need of endurance in order that having done the will of God, you may obtain the promise." (Heb. 10:36)

2.) The apostle Paul strived with endurance to gain the reward, though he knew he was saved eternally:

"Do you not know that those who run on a race course all run, but one receives the prize? Run in this way, that you may lay hold. And everyone who contends exercises self-control in all things, they then, that they may receive a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible." ( 1 Cor. 9:24,25)

By all means, please check the rest of the passage.

After Paul was saved he considered that he was on a race track running for a reward. The reward was not BE saved eternally. It was in addition to being saved eternally.

"Brothers, I do not account of myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do: Forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before.

I pursue toward the goal for the prize to which God in Christ Jesus has called me upward. " (Phil. 3:13,14)

The prize Paul was stretching forward to obtain was not eternal salvation. It was in addition to eternal salvation. His past experiences he did not linger in. He was always seeking to "gain Christ" more and more.

Here at the end of his life and ministry, the man who knew he had been eternally saved all his Christian life, now expected to receive the crown of righteousness for his righteous running of the Christian race.

"I have fought the good fight; I have finished the course; I have kept the faith.

Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, with which the Lord, the righteous judge [at the judgment seat of Christ] , will recompense me in that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing." ( 2 Tim. 4:7,8)

Moses looked away to the reward (Hebrews 11:26).
And here in 10:36 the Hebrew believers were charged not to miss the coming Sabbath rest (4:9), the enjoyment of Christ and the reigning with Christ in the coming millennial kingdom.

So the promise and the reward in Hebrew 10:35,36 is the reward and recompense of reigning in the millennial kingdom.
It is not obtaining eternal life and eternal redemption as a recompense for having endurance.

Let us pose some quite legitimate questions about Hebrews 10.

Question: If I am saying that these Hebrew Christians were exhorted not to miss the reward, WHY is the punishment seem so severe ?

Paul speaks of:

1.) " a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire ..." (v. 27)

Sounds pretty serious ! How could I be so sure that these are not damned people ?

2.) "consume the ADVERSARIES" (v.27)

Could saved people be said to be God's adversaries ??

3.) " worthy of worse punishment " [than death] (v.29)

What could be worse punishment than death ?

4.) "Vengence is Mine, I will repay" (v.30)

Could God take vengence on His people whom He has eternally redeemed ?

5.) "The Lord will judge His people" (v.30)

Am I sure that they are HIS people ?
Maybe the Scripture meant the Lord will judge those who are no longer His people or who are not His people.

6.) "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (v.31)

Could it be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God to whom Jesus has said they are sheep in the loving and powerfully faithful hand of the Father / Son ( John `0:27,28) ?

Muse for a bit on the abject seriousness of these warnings.
How then could I possibly say that the audience of this letter are people who are eternally saved ?

My answer to my own questions here will follow:

Originally posted by sonship

1.) " a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire ..." (v. 27)

2.) "consume the ADVERSARIES" (v.27)

3.) " worthy of worse punishment " [than death] (v.29)

4.) "Vengence is Mine, I will repay" (v.30)

5.) "The Lord will judge His people" (v.30)

6.) "It is a fearful thing ...[text shortened]...

From the church age and in the millennial kingdom up until the time of the new heaven and new earth, God works upon His sons for their perfecting that they may all be "conformed to the image of His Son".

Hebrews 12:5 - 11 encompasses a wide range of positive and negative things the Father could do for this perfecting.

And you have completely forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with sons, " My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when reproved by Him; (v5)

For whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives." (v.6)

It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons. For what son is there whom the father does not discipline ? (v.7)

But if you are without discipline, of which all sons have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. (v.8)

Furthermore we have had the fathers of our flesh as discipliners and we respected them; shall we not much more be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? (v.9)

For they discipline for a few days as it seemed good to them; but He, for what is profitable that we might partake of His holiness. (v.10)

Now no discipline at the present time seems to be a matter of joy, but of grief; but afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been exercised by it. (v.11)

God's perfecting of His sons then, contains a wide latitude of dealings. And these dealings are NOT only restricted to the church age. They include after the time of Christ's second coming, through the millennium and up until the beginning of the eternal age 1,000 years after His second coming.

The six serious warnings in Hebrews 10:27 - 31 fall within the scope the Father's discipline to perfect His sons. They are on the most severe end of the possible corrections the Christian could experience when such a one "suffer[s] loss" but is himself saved yet so as through fire.

Discipline of Christians on the other side of the second coming of Christ is a difficult thing for Calvinists to see since the Reformation.

Discipline of Christians after the second coming of Christ is impossible to see for Arminians other than seeing it as eternal punishment - the revoking of the gift of eternal life.

The truth is between the two extremes.

It is evident that Jesus strongly implied the Father's forgiveness in the church age and its need in the next age.

Consider His words:

"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come," (Matt. 12:32) (NASB).

Please notice - " ... not be forgiven him, EITHER IN THIS AGE, OR IN THE AGE TO COME."

This age is the church age.
After the second coming of Christ that will be the millennial kingdom age - the age to come.

The strong implication of His words are that even in the millennial kingdom age there may be some things in the Christian's life that require remedy, reconciliation [not as to eternal redemption] but as to maturity in the divine life.

Suppose we as Christians have a certain sin that all our life long we do not confess? Suppose we tolerate a certain unconfessed sin up to the second coming of Christ ?

As to having eternal redemption we are saved securely.
As to living Christ, expressing Christ, we may tolerate something unconfessed, un-dealt with in the age of grace.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9)

Suppose you never confessed some willful sinning all your Christian life. Rather the besetting sin was tolerated. Suppose for instance it is unforgiveness of some offense from someone.

In this church age, though you have eternal life, you have something un-dealt with. In the age to come there is still the need for confession, forgiveness in fellowship, and sanctification.

The suffering of loss in this passage is a suffering of loss AFTER the second coming of Christ. It is a suffering of loss in the age to come, which is the millennial kingdom age of 1,000 years.

"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.

If anyone's work is consumed, he will SUFFER LOSS, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)

" ... it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come," (Matt. 12:32)

These words preclude that some forms of forgiveness will be had in the age to come - the millennial kingdom.

The point of God's dealing with His sons in Hebrews 11 is that all these disciplines included in His love and necessary perfection both in this age and in the age to come.

By the end of the 1,000 all His sons will be matured. And this explains why the restoration of the creation is only partial in the millennial time. But it is complete and total (Rev. 21:1) once no son of God is left immature by that time.

Could the suffering of loss though being saved be a fearful experience ? Could these words possibly apply to it ?

1.) " a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire ..." (v. 27)

I say yes.
Why not ?

Could the suffering of loss or the discipine of the Father over a son include this ?

2.) "consume the ADVERSARIES" (v.27)

Yes.
Romans 8 says that the mind set on the flesh is enmity with God.
For a believer to mind the flesh rather than his regenerated spirit can cause him to be in enmity with God even though he is saved eternally.

"Because the mind set on the flesh is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither can it be.

And those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:7,8)

It is an exhortation to believers. We who are saved eternally should not be in enmity with God by living in the flesh, setting our mind on the fallen flesh.

To "suffer loss" could conceivably include the Father dealing with this adversarial enmity of the carnal believer. God deals with him so that as a son he may be perfected.

Could suffering loss at the judgment seat of Christ be considered as a worse fate than physical death?

I say it could in some cases cause these words to apply-

3.) " worthy of worse punishment " [than death] (v.29)

If I die in the Christ as a backslidden Christian and am resurrected with a realization that Jesus is still unhappy with something in my Christian living - this could conceivably be fearful to the point that it seems worse than death.

For Paul to say "he will suffer loss" is general.
How much loss is loss is not known.
It could mean however much loss the Father calls for in the disciplining of His sons as indicated in Hebrews 12.

The phrase "he will suffer loss; yet he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire" is general and could conceivably involve, I think, any of the following mentioned in Hebrews 10.

4.) "Vengence is Mine, I will repay" (v.30)

5.) "The Lord will judge His people" (v.30)

6.) "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God"

We should not despair. It is no wonder that Jesus told His disciples that if they are merciful they will obtain mercy. And He warned that as we judge we also will be judged. So the Christian is well advised to be strict towards the self but merciful towards others.

Hebrews 10 still tells the believers to come forward to God on His throne of grace with boldness.

Hebrews 12 still says the Father will do whatever He deems appropriate that we partake of His holiness - a holiness we need to see the Lord.

" Pursue peace with all men and sanctification, without which no one will see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14)

Originally posted by sonship
Could the suffering of loss though being saved be a fearful experience ? Could these words possibly apply to it ?

1.) " a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire ..." (v. 27)

I say yes.
Why not ?

Could the suffering of loss or the discipine of the Father over a son include this ?

2.) "consume the ...[text shortened]... all men and sanctification, without which no one will see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14)

[/b]

The fatal nature of a life of sin:

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Better no hand and into Gods Kingdom than hands and you get thrown into the lake of fire. Some Christians will enter eternal damnation with both hands.

Take note.

Originally posted by Rajk999

The fatal nature of a life of sin:

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Better no hand and into Gods Kingdom than hands and you get thrown into the lake of fire. Some Christians will enter eternal damnation with both hands.

Take note.

I did take note of this.
Do you wish to talk about this passage ?

Once again.

The general phrase "suffer loss" is open ended.

The severity of what it conceivably could mean in some cases, we would be wise not to preclude as impossible.

How much "suffer" is "suffer" ?
How much loss is loss ?

We don't know. But we are warned.
The passage I don't think means that we should physically amputate our limbs. This would not do any good anyway.

The passage means that we should deal with the motive of such sins seriously at any cost.

Paul said to put to death the members. But His meaning was to so throw ourselves into the empower grace of Christ that certain sins were put to death in us.

" Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleaness, passion, evil desire, and greediness, which is idolatry;

Because of which things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience." (Colossians 3:5,6)

Notice Paul speaks of these errors as "your members" closely associating them with the members of our physical body.

I think I wrote about this over a year ago in the discussion on the Gehenna of fire. But I could be mistaken.

The motive of such sins must be dealt with seriously. Since it is so serious we need all the more to come boldly to the throne of grace to receive timely help and mercy to overcome.