Spirituality
20 May 22
@divegeester saidAnd yet those who believe in it, they love it.
Not believing in hell makes no difference to life, no difference to death and no difference to salvation. But it’s an off-putting doctrine, so why preach it when it is actually Christ who draws people, not fear?
And yet those who believe in it, they love it.
So sure, are you? I've been a Christian for many years and I find nothing to love about hell, and neither do many other Christians. The fact remains everything that can be done to keep you from the fires of hell has already been done when one man was beaten, tortured and finally hung on a cross to die 2000 years ago as a sacrifice for your transgressions, and those of the world.
This isn't supposed to make logical sense.
All that is asked of you is you accept and believe Christ did this for you. Faith is a gift Mr. divegester, I can't tell you how to do this.
BTW - I like your avatar. It looks like someone doing a backflip dive into a pool. 🙂
22 May 22
@divegeester saidAre you one of those people who believe that if I don't affirm your beliefs I
Not believing in hell makes no difference to life, no difference to death and no difference to salvation. But it’s an off-putting doctrine, so why preach it when it is actually Christ who draws people, not fear?
And yet those who believe in it, they love it.
hate you, and I can only show I love you if I agree with you?
22 May 22
@mchill saideverything that can be done to keep you from the fires of hell has already been done
The fact remains everything that can be done to keep you from the fires of hell has already been done when one man was beaten, tortured and finally hung on a cross to die 2000 years ago as a sacrifice for your transgressions, and those of the world.
On another recent thread, I put this to you: "I have read the scriptures. I don't have "faith". And I cannot just somehow decide to have it. So, what now, according to your beliefs?"
And your answer was that you didn't have an answer to that.
What's happened in the last three days that's made you go from not knowing the answer to what happens to non-believers... to now saying you know that they are destined for "the fires of hell"?
What's changed?
22 May 22
@fmf saidNothing changed, but I'll note your attempts to over complicate this issue.
everything that can be done to keep you from the fires of hell has already been done
On another recent thread, I put this to you: "I have read the scriptures. I don't have "faith". And I cannot just somehow decide to have it. So, what now, according to your beliefs?"
And your answer was that you didn't have an answer to that.
What's happened in the last three days ...[text shortened]... lievers... to now saying you know that they are destined for "the fires of hell"?
What's changed?
22 May 22
@fmf saidWhatever you say kiddo - I'm going back to the tactics book now. My last tournament taught me 11-year olds are a formidable group, not to be taken lightly. 😉
You said you didn't know a few days ago. Today you apparently do know. This is not overcomplicating the issue. Quite the opposite.
22 May 22
@mchill saidIf you ever decide what it is you believe on this matter, come back and talk about it if you want. Discussing such things is what this forum is for.
Whatever you say kiddo - I'm going back to the tactics book now. My last tournament taught me 11-year olds are a formidable group, not to be taken lightly.
@mchill saidThank you for this reaffirmation of your belief.
The fact remains everything that can be done to keep you from the fires of hell has already been done when one man was beaten, tortured and finally hung on a cross to die 2000 years ago as a sacrifice for your transgressions, and those of the world.
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23 May 22
5 edits
Not believing in hell makes no difference to life, no difference to death and no difference to salvation. But it’s an off-putting doctrine, so why preach it when it is actually Christ who draws people, not fear?
And yet those who believe in it, they love it.
My expereince has been that strong annhilationists or universal salvation advocates use thier taunting to get some Christians to defend thier acceptance of words from Christ which are fearful AS WELL as those that are comforting.
Then getting them to defend thier acceptance of such scriptures the taunting becomes accusation that the believer LOVES the matter, ADORES to talk about ONLY hell fire, and the "hell-shamming" substitutes for well reasoned exegesis as to a better understanding of such passages.
I am OPEN in mind to anyone presenting a convincing alternative way to interpret such fearful passages.
I am open to admitting certain problems with the concept of eternal punishment.
Admitting dificulties here or there is not enough for disbelief in what was plainly stated by the same mouth that spoke the MOST powerful words about forgiveness, pardon, and God's willingness to redeem, pardon.
The same mouth spoke both sides of the matter which makes it hard to easily dismiss what we believe but may not like in every sense.
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23 May 22
7 edits
So, annhilationists, why not stop the tactic - Talk about Hell a lot to me so I can then say all you know about God and Jesus Christ is Hell - sicko!"
What you really need to do to support your complaint is EXTRACT OUT of the mouth of Christ and His apostles words about eternal judgment.
You can start here:
"But I will show you whom you should fear; fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna, yes, I tell you, fear this One." (Luke 12:5)
Don't argue that that is the ONLY thing taught in the New Testament because that obviously is ridiculous.
And don't argue that if I choose to believe this ALONG WITH the other many, many comforting things He spoke, all I love is the doctrine of eternal punishment. That is a lie.
Work if you have to on proving that text was ADDED by mean and sadistic people to the document long after its original writing - IE. "Jesus Meek and Mild would have NEVER said that. Here's textural proof."
That's the case the might convince me to take my scissors to cut out off the page Luke 12:5.
@sonship saidIt's fascinating to see how much interest you have in talking about eternal torture [without ever making it sound morally coherent, to my way of thinking. but that's a different matter] and, meanwhile, how little interest you have in talking about Jesus's other teaching, about obeying his commandments, about doing good works, about Christian activity around the world, about nuts and bolts Christian thinking on poverty and education and justice, about moral issues, about ethics and dilemmas, about Christian thought in the context of the modern world in the face of change, and about walking the Christian walk in practical terms. Nope. Little to none of that. Just eternal torture, stuff like your endless irrelevant droning about your own deification, and other recitations of dogma. This is not an "attack". It's an invitation for you to reflect.
Then getting them to defend thier acceptance of such scriptures the taunting becomes accusation that the believer LOVES the matter, ADORES to talk about ONLY hell fire, and and the "hell-shamming" substitutes for well reasoned exigesis as to a better understanding of such passages.