01 Sep 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSelf control comes from a region of the brain specifically built for that purpose. It can be seen in functional MRI's and other brain scan machines.
Or to seriously explore how to attain that self-control?
In teenagers, boys in particular, this region of the brain is less developed and there is a one to one tie to their behavior, whether reckless driving, thrill seeking, rape, theft, murder or what have you, can be seen in this part of the brain. It has nothing to do with a god. Girls on the other hand, tend to be more developed in this particular part of the brain and are more likely statistically speaking, to say, I am going to get in trouble if I do XYZ.
Teenage boys, having a lesser developed module there, don't have as much of that built in constraint. You might call it a hard wired conscience.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydSo tell us, do you feel guilty after knowingly commiting a sin? If so, why do you feel guilty, as you know you have been forgiven already? If not, is that not a strong motivation to:
As a Christian who believes in salvation by grace alone, through faith in Christ, ("not thru works lest any man should boast"😉 I can safely say that I am not hiding from God. That would be a foolish thing to attempt anyway, as God is omniscient.
1. continue sinning.
2. believe in salvation by grace alone.
I am not accusing you of anything, just hoping for a fair analysis.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by twhitehead[a] feel guilty after sin yes... know your forgiven no... only after judgement will you know
So tell us, do you feel guilty after knowingly commiting a sin? If so, why do you feel guilty, as you know you have been forgiven already? If not, is that not a strong motivation to:
1. continue sinning.
2. believe in salvation by grace alone.
I am not accusing you of anything, just hoping for a fair analysis.
[b] we do but we strive not to
[c]by his grace we will [them who are] will have the gate opened.
others have another gate opened, then you will know which.
[d]two men enter a church one says thank you lord for not making me like the other fellow, the other fellow says lord my sins are many i will change please forgive me. god love a true penetent heart
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhat a strange question to ask. Any Christian will feel guilty after sinning if the Holy Spirit convicts them of it. If you know you have done something that grieves someone else and is wrong you will feel guilty , whether forgiven of not. Just because one believes that one is forgiven does not mean that forgiveness does not have to be received on a regular basis.
So tell us, do you feel guilty after knowingly commiting a sin? If so, why do you feel guilty, as you know you have been forgiven already? If not, is that not a strong motivation to:
1. continue sinning.
2. believe in salvation by grace alone.
I am not accusing you of anything, just hoping for a fair analysis.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIt can be argued that it is those who are righteous because, for them, there is no other option, are the ones who truly recognize and thus follow the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc. --------ToO--------------------
I've heard some say something to that effect. It never made much sense to me. Many live virtuous lives simply because they truly believe that it's the only way to live. There's a beauty in virtue and they recognize it. I wonder if those who behave morally only because of "God's threat" cannot see the beauty and thus can't comprehend any other motivation. ...[text shortened]... assion, justice, etc. The concepts of "threat" or "reward" are meaningless to them.
But do you actually believe that there is an active Father God whose will needs to be followed?
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDo you love him? Do you keep his word? Do you believe in his Father?
You might want to look at who Jesus says loves Him and who loves Him not:
John 14:21-24
[b]He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him. Judas (not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, what is come to pass that thou wilt ...[text shortened]... ll come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my words[/b]
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe problem is that at the moment none of us know whether what you are talking about is based on either...
At it's worst, it seems that many believe that all that's required is that they "confess their sin to God." Many also seem to believe that it's "impossible" to keep from committing sin. So for them it's not even a matter of "convinc[ing] themselves that they should not feel guilty". They don't feel guilty. They feel they are "accepted the way they are". ...[text shortened]... 's really there is a love of being freed from the feeling of comdemnation.
a) an outside observation of Christians , from the outside loking in
OR
b) an insider view based on personal experience of trying to be a Christian and trying to abide in God.
If it's a) then I wonder what your speculations about what Christians may or may not "feel" is worth.
When I first drove a car a lot of assumptions I had about driving went out the window because of what I was experiencing. Like most things , you only find out the whole story from the inside (b) and not the outside.
01 Sep 08
3 edits
Some people think that there is no other incentive to live Christ but eternal perdition.
This is somewhat like a traffic violator who thinks the only recourse the authorities have for violations is the death penalty.
"Since, there is no death penalty for speeding 80 MPH down a 35 MPH street, I can do it. You see the authorites weren't too smart. They only have two modes of conduct:
1.) Guilty of the death penalty
2.) Total innocents and freedom
This is the flavor of the arguments from people like Rajk999 and ToO. They think they have Christians over a barrel because of the binary theology - God can only either:
1.) damn you for eternity
2.) let you get away with your heart's evil desire - scott free.
The truth of the matter is that there is a call for those to "overcome" for a reward (Rev. 2:11,1726-28;3:5,12,20-21;21:7). And some of those rewards are spoken in terms of avoiding something unpleasant.
There is incentive in the Bible without the prospect of eternal damnation. And those who think God is locked into some system of letting His own children run wild without discipline seemed not to have read through the Bible too carefully.
First hint: Didn't some of the children of Israel esacpe from Egypt but die in the wilderness? Of the first generation only Joshua and Caleb entered into the good land. Even Moses was disciplined not to be able to enter into the promise land.
That was the first big hint that you the bringing out, the saving was not an end in itself. He brought them out to bring them in. And some came out but did not enter in.
With those who only see Heaven or eternal life as the only blessing of God, they think God has stupidly locked Himselt into a permissive relationship with His saved people.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by SmoothCowboyCan you elaborate on this? Especially Romans 8:1. It seems to me that there are many who believe that they are "born again" after "professing belief" and therefore have a "seed of the Spirit". They seem to believe that, as such, they walk "after the Spirit" even though they continue commit sin (walk after the flesh). They seem to believe that they have "eternal life"/"heaven"/"salvation". Your position is unclear to me.
That's not what the Bible says. Look closely,it says "who walk not after the flesh,"(selfish desires). A christian should never not take advantage of grace.(Rom6:1)
Romans 8:1
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by sonhouseDoes this change with maturity?
Self control comes from a region of the brain specifically built for that purpose. It can be seen in functional MRI's and other brain scan machines.
In teenagers, boys in particular, this region of the brain is less developed and there is a one to one tie to their behavior, whether reckless driving, thrill seeking, rape, theft, murder or what have you, can ...[text shortened]... re, don't have as much of that built in constraint. You might call it a hard wired conscience.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterI can only surmise that you are uninterested in what Jesus had to say. You seem only interested in finding ways to attack me. Seems likely that this is a way for you to continue "to hide" rather than deal with the teachings of Jesus.
Do you love him? Do you keep his word? Do you believe in his Father?
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by jaywillPerhaps you should read the original post. The key point is the freedom from the feeling of condemnation by claiming "salvation by grace". It is in this feeling of security that they hide.
Some people think that there is no other incentive to live Christ but eternal perdition.
This is somewhat like a traffic violator who thinks the only recourse the authorities have for violations is the death penalty.
"Since, there is no death penalty for speeding 80 MPH down a 35 MPH street, I can do it. You see the authorites weren't too smart. The ...[text shortened]... hink God has stupidly locked Himselt into a permissive relationship with His saved people.
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhy do you find it strange? It seems like a perfectly reasonable question to me. I know plenty of people who claim to be Christian and show no signs of guilt.
What a strange question to ask. Any Christian will feel guilty after sinning if the Holy Spirit convicts them of it. If you know you have done something that grieves someone else and is wrong you will feel guilty , whether forgiven of not. Just because one believes that one is forgiven does not mean that forgiveness does not have to be received on a regular basis.
So let me direct a similar question to you:
After you have received forgiveness, do you still feel guilty?
01 Sep 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadAfter I have received forgiveness I may or may not feel guilt but it would not be destructive guilt and I would not feel a rift in my relationship with God. The important thing about forgiveness is the healing of a broken relationship , of which freedom from guilt is a part. Mind you I believe that some guilt can be healthy and some isn't.
Why do you find it strange? It seems like a perfectly reasonable question to me. I know plenty of people who claim to be Christian and show no signs of guilt.
So let me direct a similar question to you:
After you have received forgiveness, do you still feel guilty?
01 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneHow are my questions perceived by you as an attack? They can only be an attack if you cannot answer them without your position being weakened. If I wanted to attack you I would ask you why you have such a big nose or make another such insult.
I can only surmise that you are uninterested in what Jesus had to say. You seem only interested in finding ways to attack me. Seems likely that this is a way for you to continue "to hide" rather than deal with the teachings of Jesus.
The questions I ask are basically fundamental and very much on topic. I am asking whether you practice what you preach and once again it seems you are unwilling to answer. I will leave others to draw their own conclusions as to why you refuse to be drawn on this.
I do not need to hide from your interpretation of Jesus because I follow the Gospel of grace. I have no desire to attack you personally (even though it's hard not to find such hypocrisy distasteful) I only seek to challenge the distortions with the truth. You distort the Gospel of grace and St Paul's teachings but you must also know that St Paul can hardly be described as soft on sin or a cheap grace merchant.