1. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    31 Aug '08 19:321 edit
    Many Christians seem to be of the belief that atheism is a subconscious means of "hiding from God". That subconsciously the atheist recognizes the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc as well as the desires of the self, i.e., : pride, greed, lust, gluttony, etc. By claiming the non-existence of God, atheist is "free" to partake in the desires of the self without the feeling of condemnation.

    What's interesting is that the "salvation by grace" Christian (SBGC) recognizes the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc as well as the desires of the self, i.e., : pride, greed, lust, gluttony, etc. By claiming "salvation by grace", the SBGC is "free" to partake in the desires of the self without the feeling of condemnation.

    Thus "salvation by grace" Christianity is a subconcious means of "hiding from God."

    Any thoughts?
  2. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    31 Aug '08 20:301 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Many Christians seem to be of the belief that atheism is a subconscious means of "hiding from God". That subconsciously the atheist recognizes the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc as well as the desires of the self, i.e., : pride, greed, lust, gluttony, etc. By claiming the non-existence of God, atheist is "free" to par e" Christianity is a subconcious means of "hiding from God."

    Any thoughts?
    As an atheist, I do not believe in God and thus do not try to hide from him. I set my own rules ie truth, love, humility, compassion, justice etc and answer to myself if I break them. As a result I tend not to break them.
    In my experience, many of the Christians I know break the rules they profess to have far more than I break the rules I profess to have. Yes I think you might be on to something. I have often noted Christians trying very hard to convince themselves that they should not feel guilty for thier sins because they have been 'forgiven' and I think that to a large extent they succeed and the result is repeat behaviour.
  3. weedhopper
    Joined
    25 Jul '07
    Moves
    8061
    31 Aug '08 21:51
    As a Christian who believes in salvation by grace alone, through faith in Christ, ("not thru works lest any man should boast"😉 I can safely say that I am not hiding from God. That would be a foolish thing to attempt anyway, as God is omniscient.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    31 Aug '08 22:45
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Many Christians seem to be of the belief that atheism is a subconscious means of "hiding from God". That subconsciously the atheist recognizes the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc as well as the desires of the self, i.e., : pride, greed, lust, gluttony, etc. By claiming the non-existence of God, atheist is "free" to par ...[text shortened]... e" Christianity is a subconcious means of "hiding from God."

    Any thoughts?
    If you convince someone that their salvation is guaranteed, what motivation is there to exercise any self control?
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    31 Aug '08 23:23
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Many Christians seem to be of the belief that atheism is a subconscious means of "hiding from God". That subconsciously the atheist recognizes the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc as well as the desires of the self, i.e., : pride, greed, lust, gluttony, etc. By claiming the non-existence of God, atheist is "free" to par ...[text shortened]... e" Christianity is a subconcious means of "hiding from God."

    Any thoughts?
    Enough of your hypocrisy!!!

    I think you should first come clean about whether you actually believe in God at all first before expecting to be taken seriously on this.

    Simple question - Do you believe that the Father God of Jesus is real? A simple yes or no will suffice. Put up or shut up.

    ( BTW- Look at your post , you are sniping away at Christians but don't reveal what your beliefs actually are. Maybe it is you that is hiding? )
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    31 Aug '08 23:23
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If you convince someone that their salvation is guaranteed, what motivation is there to exercise any self control?
    Love?
  7. Joined
    18 Feb '07
    Moves
    1178
    31 Aug '08 23:51
    According to the religious critics of atheism there is no reason to behave morally without god's (empty) threat.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    01 Sep '08 00:17
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Love?
    What we have in the world is selflove.

    II Tim 3:
    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
  9. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    01 Sep '08 00:17
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    As an atheist, I do not believe in God and thus do not try to hide from him. I set my own rules ie truth, love, humility, compassion, justice etc and answer to myself if I break them. As a result I tend not to break them.
    In my experience, many of the Christians I know break the rules they profess to have far more than I break the rules I profess to hav ...[text shortened]... 'forgiven' and I think that to a large extent they succeed and the result is repeat behaviour.
    At it's worst, it seems that many believe that all that's required is that they "confess their sin to God." Many also seem to believe that it's "impossible" to keep from committing sin. So for them it's not even a matter of "convinc[ing] themselves that they should not feel guilty". They don't feel guilty. They feel they are "accepted the way they are".

    So, yes, the result is repeat behavior. It's been my experience that Christians, on the whole, are no better at "following God's will" than the general public. For all the talk of "loving God" or "abiding in God", what's really there is a love of being freed from the feeling of comdemnation.
  10. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    01 Sep '08 00:19
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    As a Christian who believes in salvation by grace alone, through faith in Christ, ("not thru works lest any man should boast"😉 I can safely say that I am not hiding from God. That would be a foolish thing to attempt anyway, as God is omniscient.
    Maybe you misunderstood my post?
  11. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    01 Sep '08 00:21
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If you convince someone that their salvation is guaranteed, what motivation is there to exercise any self control?
    Or to seriously explore how to attain that self-control?
  12. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    01 Sep '08 00:302 edits
    Originally posted by jonas555
    According to the religious critics of atheism there is no reason to behave morally without god's (empty) threat.
    I've heard some say something to that effect. It never made much sense to me. Many live virtuous lives simply because they truly believe that it's the only way to live. There's a beauty in virtue and they recognize it. I wonder if those who behave morally only because of "God's threat" cannot see the beauty and thus can't comprehend any other motivation.

    It can be argued that it is those who are righteous because, for them, there is no other option, are the ones who truly recognize and thus follow the "will of God", i.e., truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc. The concepts of "threat" or "reward" are meaningless to them.
  13. Joined
    18 Feb '07
    Moves
    1178
    01 Sep '08 00:52
    You're right, It doesn't make sense to believe someone can't be moral without god. Empathy is something everyone possesses--unless they're sociopaths. However, I suppose they could be emotionally ignorant or in denial of it because it contradicts their belief.
  14. Joined
    15 Oct '06
    Moves
    10115
    01 Sep '08 01:49
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Love?
    You might want to look at who Jesus says loves Him and who loves Him not:

    John 14:21-24
    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him. Judas (not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, what is come to pass that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my words
  15. Joined
    08 Jan '07
    Moves
    236
    01 Sep '08 02:47
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    By claiming "salvation by grace", the SBGC is "free" to partake in the desires of the self without the feeling of condemnation.

    That's not what the Bible says. Look closely,it says "who walk not after the flesh,"(selfish desires). A christian should never not take advantage of grace.(Rom6:1)

    Romans 8:1
    (1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Back to Top