Originally posted by sonship
Paul met Jesus according to Paul.
Which should only add to the skepticism that we give to Pauls writings.
Even very liberal scholars grant the authenticity of First Corinthians.
Authenticity meaning what? Meaning that they grant that Paul wrote it, or that the contents are authentic?
I don't think any non-Christian scholar would think that Paul actually met Jesus.
Just on the grounds of the tools of the historian he makes a solid case for the early Christians really believed Christ had risen from the dead.
Depending on how early we are talking, I see no reason to dispute that.
It debunks conspiracy theories developed 1600 to 1800 years latter that this was legend telling or myth making.
No, actually it doesn't. The two are compatible.
No, at least within a decade or more the Christians believed that Jesus had risen and had appeared.
Before Paul, or after?
The point was raised that He wrote nothing. So it is not a switch. It is a reply.
Sorry, I think I misread your post there. My mistake.
My point is that if you doubt things about Jesus based on NT then you certainly should doubt more about information about too many other ancient figures, if long time spans and legend weaving is your issue.
Its a good point, and I have always had great doubts about many historical figures, as have most historians. Not necessarily about whether or not they existed, but rather what whether what was said about them was accurate.
But there are cases of seemingly historical figures whose existence is doubted.
It was BELIEVED within years of the life of Jesus.
That is technically impossible, given that it could only be believed after he died. The arguments I have heard do not dispute that Paul wrote about Jesus, so if Jesus did not exist then the myth either started with Paul or Paul picked it up from earlier sources.
That is why some conspiracy people have said that there was a mass hallucination. Which theory I find unconvincing. The Swoon Theory, that He never died, also I find unconvincing.
As a Christian you would not be convinced by anything. But I am no longer sure what we are discussing here, are we discussing whether or not Jesus rose from the dead, or whether or not Jesus existed at all?
You see I don't want you to think you are being forced to believe the New Testament.
Don't worry, you couldn't force me if you tried. At the very best you could convince me that it is more likely that Jesus existed than Alexander the Great, but I rather doubt you will succeed even that given that the facts are against you. Convincing me that there is a historical case for Jesus rising from the dead is simply out of the question.
I notice you haven't brought up the fact that one of the Gospels mentions large numbers of corpses walking through the streets at about the same time. Whats your view on that? Did that actually happen?
Strawmen arguments are weak arguments.
Strawmen arguments, are arguments based on the claim that your opponent holds a position he doesn't hold.
I do not need to provide lists of historians that doubt the existence of particular figures when I never claimed nor believe such doubting historians exist.
And your tactic is to always accuse an argument of being either not what you are saying or a strawman.
Its two ways of saying the same thing. And I do it because its true. You keep on demanding that I answer challenges that do not address my position at all.
I know about the Shakespeare deniers, a little bit.
Good. So you know there are skeptics about certain historical figures other than Jesus.