Buckky,
I have not studied all the matter, but if people that saw Jesus with their eyes, and heard Jesus with their ears died with faith in Him for eternal salvation then that stands for something. Read about any of the apostles that you can find information on, such as Peter and John. Besides, there were 11 more if you count Paul the Apostle.
I have not read them that I know of , but you might want to read any writings about Jesus of Polycarp, and Irenaeus. For all I know, Tertullian might have written on Jesus, as well. Then, there may be writing on Jesus from Josephus.
Originally posted by buckkyCheck these out:
I'm not being argumentative here but is there any historical proof of Jesus ?
Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources
http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm
Historical evidence of the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ
http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/religion/artikel.php?ID=306578
Josephus
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
- Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63
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Originally posted by buckkyDepends what you are asking.
I'm not being argumentative here but is there any historical proof of Jesus ?
There is no evidence at all that the 'son of god' ever walked the Earth performing miracles.
If however you are asking whether there was a guy called Jesus who lived about 2000 years
ago who the myths and stories are based on then that is a hotly contested issue between
the relevant historians.
The evidence is to scant to draw firm conclusions either way, but the historians using the
best methodologies for analysing the evidence we do have say that Jesus is more likely to
be pure myth and not be based on a real historical person.
As a counterpoint to people quoting the bible at you as if that proved anything...
I recommend having a look at this guy.
http://www.richardcarrier.info/jesus.html
Originally posted by KingOnPointI understand that most of what we know about Jesus (of a non-apostle nature) came through Josephus. He wrote quite a bit about Him especially in the latter part of His ministry.
I have not read them that I know of , but you might want to read any writings about Jesus of Polycarp, and Irenaeus. For all I know, Tertullian might have written on Jesus, as well. Then, there may be writing on Jesus from Josephus.
Originally posted by googlefudgeFrom Pulp Fiction, 1994:
There is no evidence at all that the 'son of god' ever walked the Earth performing miracles.
Mia: "You heard Marcellus threw Tony Rocky Horror out of a four story window for giving me a foot massage?"
Vincent: "Uh huh."
Mia: "And you believe that?"
Vincent: "Well.. at the time I was told it sounded reasonable."
Mia: "Marcellus throwing Tony out of a four story window for massaging my feet seemed reasonable?"
Vincent: "No, it seemed excessive. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen."
--------------------------------------
You're saying it doesn't seem reasonable. I'm just pointing out "But that doesn't mean it didn't happen."
That's the thing about 'no evidence'. You cannot prove it didn't happen. Plenty of things go on every day with 'no evidence'.
That doesn't mean they didn't happen.
Originally posted by buckkyYou'll have to first identify what qualifies as "any historical proof" before you can rightly answer the question.
I'm not being argumentative here but is there any historical proof of Jesus ?
For the overwhelming majority of credible scholars who study history, there is little to no doubt of His reality.
Originally posted by yoctobyteScholarly opinion on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities, a passage that states that Jesus the Messiah was a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate, usually called the Testimonium Flavianum, varies
Josephus
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him ...[text shortened]... l to this day not disappeared.
- Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Originally posted by SuzianneYou are incorrect. Josephus wrote very little about Jesus, and some of that is disputed.
I understand that most of what we know about Jesus (of a non-apostle nature) came through Josephus. He wrote quite a bit about Him especially in the latter part of His ministry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#The_three_passages
Originally posted by buckkybuckky, here are the "Daily Notes for Friday, April 11, 2014, Foundational Doctrines, Part 9 The Bible" from a pastor/teacher and close friend in New England. I hope the "historical proof of Jesus" becomes apparent as the outline unfolds:
I'm not being argumentative here but is there any historical proof of Jesus ?
"The Books of the Bible: This week we will review the books of the Bible and their make up. There are 66 books in the entire Bible including the Old and New Testament and exclude the apocryphal books. Here we will only discuss the books in our Bible. Later we will discuss the Apocryphal books. We begin with the Old Testament.
I. The Old Testament: The Old Testament, contains thirty-nine books, it came into the hands of men before the incarnation of the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ. It records the first three dispensations of human history, (the Age of Innocence, [Garden of Eden], the Age of the Patriarchs, and the Age of Israel). It begins with the creation of the heavens and the earth and ends with the nation of Israel in about 425 B.C, and includes end times prophecies. It also recorded the poetic and prophetic expressions of the spiritual life written by the inspired men during those many years.
It has been said that in the Old Testament the Lord Jesus Christ is concealed, while in the New Testament He is revealed, and this is very true. Throughout all the Bible, Old and New Testament, there is the witness of Christ, who Himself said: “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me”, John 5:39.
The Old Testament, in type and in promise, looks forward to the advent and sacrificial suffering of Israel’s Messiah, the Savior, and to His reign of righteousness upon the throne of David. Blood is the thread which runs through the pages of the Old Testament, always pointing ahead to the blood of the Lamb of God which, as determined in the counsels and foreknowledge of God, was to be poured out on the Cross of Calvary for man’s redemption. As early as the third chapter of Genesis a Redeemer is promised, Gen 3:15, 20, the seed of the woman. From that point forward the Word of God is occupied with His program of man’s salvation through Himself in the person of His Son. No one will ever wholly understand the Old Testament unless he looks for and finds Christ in its pages. Keep that in mind whenever you read it. The books of the Old Testament are generally divided into four classifications:" (Part One)
"The books of the Old Testament are generally divided into four classifications:
1. The Pentateuch, or The Books of the Law.
The word “Pentateuch,” is from two Greek words that mean “Five Books”, and refers to the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, which our Lord Himself ascribed to Moses.
In these books the Law of Moses is found, and so they are often referred to collectively as the Law. For example, “the law and the prophets”, Mat 7:12. The Pentateuch introduces that which is taught in all God’s Word, it shows man’s fallen condition and his need of redemption, and it reveals the loving grace of God to provide a covering for sin through the blood of the altar and His assurance of a Redeemer.
Genesis is the book of beginnings.
Exodus, the book of deliverance.
Leviticus, the book of worship.
Numbers, the book of experience.
Deuteronomy, the book of instruction, or exhortation.
2. The Books of History.
While the whole of the Old Testament is, in a sense, historical, there are twelve books in particular, namely, Joshua to Esther, which record the history of the nation of Israel during approximately 1000 years, from about 1450 to 445 B.C.
In this period the nation entered Palestine, the promised land of blessing. Israel was ruled by judges and then later by kings in this era. Israel was divided into two kingdoms, the northern and southern kingdoms, Israel and Judah respectfully. During this time because of sin Israel was conquered by Assyria and Judah later fell into captivity to Babylon. Though a remnant was later restored to the land, this was not the fulfillment of the covenant of Deut 30, as the nation was dispersed again in A.D. 70 at the hands of the Romans. The final national regathering is still future and will occur after the Second Advent of our Lord when He establishes His Millennial reign.
3. The Books of Poetry.
There are six poetical books, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon and Lamentations. Although many of these writings are in lyric style as songs or poems, it does not mean that the writers, (primarily Job, David and Solomon), made all lines rhyme with each other, or that the lines of the original writings can be read rhythmically. The writings referred to are rather the expressions, under the leading of the Holy Spirit, of the spiritual experiences of their writers. In the Revised Versions all of these books, except for two and a half chapters in Job, (1-2, 42), and much of the book of Ecclesiastes, are printed in poetic rather than prose form. Parts of Ecclesiastes, (1, 3, 7) are poetic. (Part Two)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI think you misunderstood the OP.
"The books of the Old Testament are generally divided into four classifications:
1. The Pentateuch, or The Books of the Law.
2. The Books of History. aka "Stuff ignorant nomads made up"
3. The Books of Poetry.
4. The Books of Prophecy."
There is also a clue in the thread title.