Originally posted by PalynkaActually, celebrating the solstice was an ancient holiday celebrated before Xmas and the Christians borrowed it to make it their own. The ancient astronomers perceived what is now 12/25 as the 1st day the the sun started trekking to the north again.
Exactly, but then there's no holiday season associated with it.
Originally posted by 667joeWhat's your problem with celebrating christmas as a cultural event?
Actually, celebrating the solstice was an ancient holiday celebrated before Xmas and the Christians borrowed it to make it their own. The ancient astronomers perceived what is now 12/25 as the 1st day the the sun started trekking to the north again.
I'm an atheist too, but c'mon - it is possible to go overboard with all the rejecting of religious symbolism stuff.
Christmas is a traditional celebration in christian-oriented societies. It has been for a pretty long time. Aside from the fact that it's a public holiday - and who can ever reject those - it's an event that should be celebrated as one of cultural significance.
Here in Australia we've been trying to promote the celebration of the indigenous Australian's cultural events for some years. (Well some of us have anyway.) No one really seems to have much of a problem with celebrating indigenous cultural heritage. Why should christmas be any different?
Now I know there's an argument to be had for overdoing the commercial side of things - the gift giving and so on - but honestly, it might be time for you to lighten up a bit ...
... and have a Merry Christmas to boot.
The solstice applies to everybody. A minority of the world is Christian. If you are a Christian, please enjoy your holiday, but have the decency to realize some people you wish a merry Xmas to may take umbrage just as you seem to have taken umbrage with me. Remember, though, Xmas can be avoided, but you will experience the solstice no matter what, so you may as well enjoy it. The Christians picked 12/25 as Christ's birthday because the solstice represented to the pagans the 1st sign of the return of life from the dead of winter, so you see, you are really celebrating the solstice. Christians plagiarized the holiday!
Originally posted by 667joeYeah I get all the historical significance of the solstice and the christian takeover of the holiday. It just strikes me as a bit over the top.
The solstice applies to everybody. A minority of the world is Christian. If you are a Christian, please enjoy your holiday, but have the decency to realize some people you wish a merry Xmas to may take umbrage just as you seem to have taken umbrage with me. Remember, though, Xmas can be avoided, but you will experience the solstice no matter what, so you ...[text shortened]... ter, so you see, you are really celebrating the solstice. Christians plagiarized the holiday!
I'm not sure what umbrage is taken by someone wishing me a merry christmas. I wouldn't take umbrage over a muslim wishing me a happy ramadan or a jew suggesting I should enjoy hannukah (not sure of the spelling on that one). It's a simple matter to point out that these celebrations do not apply to me since I don't follow that faith.
Now, as it turns out I don't follow christianity either, but I live in a society where christianity is the faith of the majority, and the history of my society has tended to celebrate some of the ritual dates of this majority. I'm not fussed by that. Yes I'm an atheist. Yes, I don't believe in the divinity of jesus or anyone else. Yes, I don't believe in a god.
But so what. It's just a freakin' holiday.
And on this issue of celebrating the solstice. It may have been relevant during ancient times when so much of the life of people was focused around the seasons and other cycles in the natural world.
It's not relevant now.
You may as well celebrate the day before the solstice, or the day after December 7, for any actual significance those dates have. (Which is none.)
Christmas has some cultural and historical significance ... and I get a day off.
Originally posted by 667joeChristmas is a synthesis of any number of solar myths. Wotan is never far away.
The solstice applies to everybody. A minority of the world is Christian. If you are a Christian, please enjoy your holiday, but have the decency to realize some people you wish a merry Xmas to may take umbrage just as you seem to have taken umbrage with me. Remember, though, Xmas can be avoided, but you will experience the solstice no matter what, so you ...[text shortened]... ter, so you see, you are really celebrating the solstice. Christians plagiarized the holiday!
Originally posted by Bosse de NageGood point, although I'm not sure that was Joe's point. He's having a go at any sign of religious celebration in a community.
You'd pretty much have to be a Scrooge.
Now far be it for me to act as an apologist for christians or any other faith, but you can take rabid atheism a little bit too far at times - it's a little like ultra forms of political correctness.
Sometimes you've just got to get over it ...