13 Jul 14
Originally posted by hakimaI expected that you would disagree. After all, we don't share the same spiritual foundation.
Pardon me as I contradict you, but I don't see one fact in any of the statements you have made as facts require proof...and for each statement you have made or quoted either I have not seen evidence or know of an equally convincing refutation.
However, you have stated some very interesting opinions which are worthy of further consideration.
Concerning proof, when God speaks, do you require that He 'proves' that what He says is true?
13 Jul 14
Originally posted by hakimaA story I heard was that Kew Gardens were interested in the potential healing properties of plants. They heard about a plant from Australia (I think, don't rely on any details this is hearsay so see it more as a parable) which had curative properties. The natives told them it could only grow on holy ground, which in the case of this plant meant semi-arid rocky places. The botanists thought they knew better and took the plant and grew it in ideal conditions. Naturally it did not exhibit its healing properties. The reason turned out to be that the alkaloid that it produced which was beneficial was a stress hormone, so to be useful to humans it had to grow in harsh conditions.
Spirituality is about what happens inside a person but it also has a lot to do with how I react in my environment. I have had silent witness of Oneness on the tops of mountains and in the deserts. Caves and hot springs also inspire me. In a week and a half I will have the opportunity to see two volcanos and I won't be surprised if I feel Presence there.
I am interested in the places that invite Holy Presence for you.
A naturally occurring medicine is something holy, whether one believes in a divine spirit or not. Clearly therefore holy places exist, because they give us things such as these.
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by josephwSince you don't know me how could you know whether or not we share the same spiritual foundation?
I expected that you would disagree. After all, we don't share the same spiritual foundation.
Concerning proof, when God speaks, do you require that He 'proves' that what He says is true?
Actually, I don't require anything from God, being that God is God...On the other hand, I don't take the word of human beings to define the nature of The Holy One. My relationship with God is personal, intimate, and secure.
Blessings!
Hakima
14 Jul 14
Back to the my original question and thought...Last year, the little community I work with was hit by an F-4 tornado. It devastated homes and upturned lives. In the immediate aftermath, I went to the community to assess the damage of the community center and the neighborhood. The effects were beyond anything I had imagined up to that point in my life. I wondered how "my families" would find any amount of hope to rebuild. Then I looked at the ground beneath my feet. There was a tiny ant hill and a handful of red ants rebuilding among the rubble and the upset earth. I thought about them being like the lilies of the field and the sparrows that Jesus spoke of on his Sermon on the Mount. That was the moment that I really understood what was being taught there...there was a "Hand of Hope" that would hold everyone there together and give the the strength to rebuild.
In my mind, the ants had consecrated that ground through their unworried acts of rebuilding.
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by DeepThoughtPerhaps "holy" is akin to "that which invokes reverence or awe." In that case, belief in God would not even be required.
A story I heard was that Kew Gardens were interested in the potential healing properties of plants. They heard about a plant from Australia (I think, don't rely on any details this is hearsay so see it more as a parable) which had curative properties. The natives told them it could only grow on holy ground, which in the case of this plant meant semi-ar ...[text shortened]... spirit or not. Clearly therefore holy places exist, because they give us things such as these.
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by josephwjosephw, I am wondering if we both could look beyond our differences regarding what either of us believe about what constitutes spirituality. My original post was a genuine request for sharing experiences about places that promote spirit/Spirit and inspire. I am interested in what places might bring that to you (specifically).
I expected that you would disagree. After all, we don't share the same spiritual foundation.
Concerning proof, when God speaks, do you require that He 'proves' that what He says is true?
Perhaps in sharing about those experiences of "holy ground" we might come together on common ground.
Namaste,
Hakima
Uploaded on Oct 2, 2011
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about ideas, language, even the phrase each other doesn't make any sense.
Who makes these changes?
I shoot an arrow right,
It lands left.
I ride after a deer and find myself chased by a hog.
I plot to get what I want and end up in prison.
I dig pits to trap others and fall in.
I should be suspicious of what I want.
Today, like every other day, we woke up empty and frightened.
Don't open the door to the study and begin reading.
Take down a musical instrument.
Let the beauty we love be what we do.
Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.
--Rumi
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by josephwhakima obviously has different beliefs to me which he was voicing.
Atheist debate tactics 1-5 in one post. Good job wolfgang.
So just exactly what was it about what I said that pissed you off so bad? Is it because I believe that the Word of God teaches that those who deny Christ are spiritually dead? Did I step on your spiritual toes?
If you can't tolerate a different belief being expressed here in this forum without resorting to name calling, then maybe you're in the wrong place!
I respected his belief and responded respectfully, you on the overhand
hijack the thread disrespectfully. You are a prick of the first order.
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59Not that it really matters for this discussion, except that I get a strange feeling seeing my posts referred to as if they were written by a man...
hakima obviously has different beliefs to me which he was voicing.
I respected his belief and responded respectfully...
Hakima is very much a woman.
Namaste
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by hakimaApologies ... a weakness of the great English language is
Not that it really matters for this discussion, except that I get a strange feeling seeing my posts referred to as if they were written by a man...
Hakima is very much a woman.
Namaste
no 3rd person neuter pronoun! Typing he/she is so pedantic.
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59No worries. It was really my hang-up more than anything else. The easy remedy for me was to simply state the truth of it and then go forward.
Apologies ... a weakness of the great English language is
no 3rd person neuter pronoun! Typing he/she is so pedantic.
Thank you for your acknowledgement and your presence of being.
_()_
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by hakimaMy personal favorite place is before the priest, at the consecration of the Eucharist. I have seen heaven open, with the presence of the Father and the Spirit decending above the priest as the bread is raised, and it becomes the Eucharist.
Spirituality is about what happens inside a person but it also has a lot to do with how I react in my environment. I have had silent witness of Oneness on the tops of mountains and in the deserts. Caves and hot springs also inspire me. In a week and a half I will have the opportunity to see two volcanos and I won't be surprised if I feel Presence there.
I am interested in the places that invite Holy Presence for you.
The Presence is always with me.
But i know what you mean of all the unique places.
My second favorite is the spiritual desert. May seem like a tough journy, but i always was a stick in the mud. Unconventional.
Originally posted by hakimaVast emptiness, nothing holy😵
Spirituality is about what happens inside a person but it also has a lot to do with how I react in my environment. I have had silent witness of Oneness on the tops of mountains and in the deserts. Caves and hot springs also inspire me. In a week and a half I will have the opportunity to see two volcanos and I won't be surprised if I feel Presence there.
I am interested in the places that invite Holy Presence for you.
14 Jul 14
Originally posted by hakima"I am interested in what places might bring that to you (specifically)."
josephw, I am wondering if we both could look beyond our differences regarding what either of us believe about what constitutes spirituality. My original post was a genuine request for sharing experiences about places that promote spirit/Spirit and inspire. I am interested in what places might bring that to you (specifically).
Perhaps in sharing about tho ...[text shortened]... o kneel and kiss the ground.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.
--Rumi
I can appreciate your perspective, but I disagree with your method. You seek to have a 'spiritual' experience based on physical (carnal) sensory inputs. In your OP you indicated that you found a connection to the 'Holy presence' by an environmental experience of your senses.
I can appreciate that, but since we disagree about who that 'presence' is, I thought I would be honest enough to say so.
My motive is not to offend. This is a debate forum where we exchange ideas and thoughts about what we believe is spiritual.
14 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwThe thread title is "Holy Ground" and she is enquiring
I can appreciate your perspective, but I disagree with your method. You seek to have a 'spiritual' experience based on physical (carnal) sensory inputs. In your OP you indicated that you found a connection to the 'Holy presence' by an environmental experience of your senses.
of others about "special" places. Isnt that obvious?
Start your own dreary thread if you want to talk
about non-carnal spiritual experiences.
😞