@kellyjay saidBefore we start could you provide guidance on what is in or out of scope with this thread? I.e. is it about Christianity, your beliefs on Christianity, do you have a specific premise in mind, are specifics permitted?
If what we believe in isn't true, if what we think is factual isn't, if we are molding our lives around something that isn't true, or denying something is, our lives are not based upon the truth but falsehoods; this leads to delusional thinking.
Thoughts!
Etc.
30 Mar 22
@divegeester saidWhat is true, what isn't? This OP is a wide-open discussion; it will go where it will.
Before we start could you provide guidance on what is in or out of scope with this thread? I.e. is it about Christianity, your beliefs on Christianity, do you have a specific premise in mind, are specifics permitted?
Etc.
30 Mar 22
@kellyjay saidI think if - for example - someone is leading a lifestyle that is costing more than the funds coming in [fact] and this is depleting savings [fact], and if that person believes that this situation is sustainable without changing the facts regarding income/expenditure, then that might credibly be described as a case of delusional thinking.
If what we believe in isn't true, if what we think is factual isn't, if we are molding our lives around something that isn't true, or denying something is, our lives are not based upon the truth but falsehoods; this leads to delusional thinking.
Thoughts!
If someone else - for example - believes that kindness to others, being prayerful, charitable, exhibiting forgiveness, honesty, patience, and fairness, as well as things like keeping promises and controlling one's anger... if they feel this will accolrd with a deity's wishes and guarantee them a place in "Heaven" after they die, then whether or not that will - factually - be the actually posthumous outcome, then I don't really think the word "delusional" applies - or at least, it strikes me as a word too loaded up with disapproval.
That's just an aspect of this topic, not an attempt to address it comprehensively.
30 Mar 22
@kellyjay saidIf we are moulding our lives around something that isn't true, [does this] lead to delusional thinking[?]
If what we believe in isn't true, if what we think is factual isn't, if we are molding our lives around something that isn't true, or denying something is, our lives are not based upon the truth but falsehoods; this leads to delusional thinking.
Thoughts!
If it's a philosophical, spiritual or religious "mould" that we use during our lifetimes, I don't see how it matters much whether it is true or whether others think we are delusional.
30 Mar 22
@fmf saidYou make excellent points; when we walk around thinking one thing while the reality is another, we will bump up against reality and either correct our thinking or get pissed.
I think if - for example - someone is leading a lifestyle that is costing more than the funds coming in [fact] and this is depleting savings [fact], and if that person believes that this situation is sustainable without changing the facts regarding income/expenditure, then that might credibly be described as a case of delusional thinking.
If someone else - for example - believ ...[text shortened]... h disapproval.
That's just an aspect of this topic, not an attempt to address it comprehensively.
30 Mar 22
@kellyjay saidIf we are talking about things like supernatural causality it matters little - in such a subjective realm - whether you and I are bandying about the word "reality". It adds little or no weight to our speculations. When it comes to things like supernatural causality, as far as I am concerned, "we will [not] bump up against reality", at least not while we are in a position to "correct our thinking".
You make excellent points; when we walk around thinking one thing while the reality is another, we will bump up against reality and either correct our thinking or get pissed.
30 Mar 22
@fmf saidObjective and subjective verbiage matters little if what we are claiming is true or false and we are wrong.
If we are talking about things like supernatural causality it matters little - in such a subjective realm - whether you and I are bandying about the word "reality". It adds little or no weight to our speculations. When it comes to things like supernatural causality, as far as I am concerned, "we will [not] bump up against reality", at least not while we are in a position to "correct our thinking".
30 Mar 22
@fmf saidRead the OP it is not about what I think is true but what is! Our historical discussions are just that, discussions in the past. What this is about is truth, not my or your version of it. Would our previous discussions alter reality, no they would not.
It's not "verbiage", KellyJay. Your use of the word objective to describe your own personal opinions in the past, time and time again, has been erroneous.
30 Mar 22
@kellyjay saidde·lu·sion·al
If what we believe in isn't true, if what we think is factual isn't, if we are molding our lives around something that isn't true, or denying something is, our lives are not based upon the truth but falsehoods; this leads to delusional thinking.
Thoughts!
/dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/
adjective
characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument
Does anyone on this forum hold beliefs that could fall under this definition?
30 Mar 22
@vivify saidWho do you think doesn’t hold some view about anything that doesn’t fall into that? If anyone claims no way they could, would that mean they hold themselves to an unreasonably higher standard than they should?
de·lu·sion·al
/dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/
adjective
characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument
Does anyone on this forum hold beliefs that could fall under this definition?
30 Mar 22
@vivify saidI think a belief can be idiosyncratic because it involves bending or redefining the conventional meaning of words - I do it sometimes when it comes to what I
characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument
believe "spirituality" is, for instance - but, although my take on it can perhaps be dismantled by "rational argument", I don't think it is "delusional".
30 Mar 22
@kellyjay saidIs not holding beliefs "contradicted by reality or rational argument" really an "unreasonably high standard"?
Who do you think doesn’t hold some view about anything that doesn’t fall into that? If anyone claims no way they could, would that mean they hold themselves to an unreasonably higher standard than they should?
30 Mar 22
@vivify saidDidn’t question the standard you made in your last, I simply highlighted none of us are immune. Refusing to scrutinize our foundational beliefs could blind us.
Is not holding beliefs "contradicted by reality or rational argument" really an "unreasonably high standard"?