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    04 Sep '06 12:45
    Well?
  2. Standard memberdj2becker
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    04 Sep '06 12:49
    You are assuming a moral framework in your question. Who is the moral lawgiver of your framework?
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    04 Sep '06 12:52
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    You are assuming a moral framework in your question. Who is the moral lawgiver of your framework?
    God.
  4. Standard memberdj2becker
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    04 Sep '06 13:05
    Originally posted by whodey
    God.
    Which God?
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Sep '06 16:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    Well?
    No bad god has that power.
    Kelly
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    04 Sep '06 16:58
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Which God?
    Does it matter? I suppose any religion that associates a God sending people to a paradise called heaven.
  7. Standard memberdj2becker
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    04 Sep '06 17:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    Does it matter? I suppose any religion that associates a God sending people to a paradise called heaven.
    I don't know of any 'bad' God in any religion that sends people to heaven.
  8. Standard memberAgerg
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    04 Sep '06 17:313 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    No bad god has that power.
    Kelly
    How do you know? 😉 who told you that?...is it impossible that what they are telling you is no less assumed than what you yourself believe?...What if *God* just created us for sport?...what if it isn't very nice afterall? Perhaps there were 2 gods and the bad god got the better of the good god! and decided that the first thing it'd do is reward all the nasty people for enternaining it so much...what if there isn't even a god at all! How can any such assertions like the one above be just stated without making reference to the fact that it is merely an assumption or your own personal belief?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Sep '06 18:00
    Originally posted by Agerg
    How do you know? 😉 who told you that?...is it impossible that what they are telling you is no less assumed than what you yourself believe?...What if *God* just created us for sport?...what if it isn't very nice afterall? Perhaps there were 2 gods and the bad god got the better of the good god! and decided that the first thing it'd do is reward all the nasty p ...[text shortened]... out making reference to the fact that it is merely an assumption or your own personal belief?
    I believe that the God that created the universe, the one and only
    one is good, and that there is no other 'God' beside Him. There are
    gods, since even people are called gods as well as the devil. As far
    as where do I go for that information to support my beliefs, I'd have
    to say scripture and experience.
    Kelly
  10. Standard memberAgerg
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    04 Sep '06 18:133 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I believe that the God that created the universe, the one and only
    one is good, and that there is no other 'God' beside Him. There are
    gods, since even people are called gods as well as the devil. As far
    as where do I go for that information to support my beliefs, I'd have
    to say scripture and experience.
    Kelly
    Fair enough....but what if some people without your experience(?) believed otherwise? 😉 I'm sure lots of people (including myself) could invent a number of different scenarios in which a bad god could send someone to heaven, none of them would have any less validity than your belief by virtue of the fact that they do not believe in the bible/scriptures etc... any more than they'd believe what I or anyone else could just make up. You could always refer me to what you *believe is correct* but then I would just counter and say "no...what I believe is correct" 🙄
  11. Joined
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    04 Sep '06 18:17
    Originally posted by Agerg
    How do you know? 😉 who told you that?...is it impossible that what they are telling you is no less assumed than what you yourself believe?...What if *God* just created us for sport?...what if it isn't very nice afterall? Perhaps there were 2 gods and the bad god got the better of the good god! and decided that the first thing it'd do is reward all the nasty p ...[text shortened]... out making reference to the fact that it is merely an assumption or your own personal belief?
    So in your scenerio all the "nasty" people would inherit paradise? Is this still not a benevolent act of some kind? If this god enjoys watching people suffer why should he allow any into a paradise such as heaven?
  12. Standard memberAgerg
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    04 Sep '06 18:228 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    So in your scenerio all the "nasty" people would inherit paradise? Is this still not a benevolent act of some kind? If this god enjoys watching people suffer why should he allow any into a paradise such as heaven?
    but who defines heaven...the person who's going there or the god itself? what if heaven was just a place where nasty people get to fight even nastier people for the rest of eternity and for the strong nasty people they get to wearily spend all eternity having to vanquish others just to stay aware of their existence, bad god on the other hand could be happy as a pig in mud at all the entertainment!...

    What if a bad god actually did want to be benevolent towards cruel people?...would there even be a contradiction if it sent them to paradise?...who's saying it must never be benevolent?...perhaps it wants to promote higher levels of cruelty by advertising the reward it offers to bad people

    What if a little goblin tells *God* that if it doesn't send *someone* to heaven then it won't get anymore pocket money?

    what if a million more absurd but valid arguments?
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Sep '06 18:36
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Fair enough....but what if some people without your experience(?) believed otherwise? 😉 I'm sure lots of people (including myself) could invent a number of different scenarios in which a bad god could send someone to heaven, none of them would have any less validity than your belief by virtue of the fact that they do not believe in the bible/scriptures etc... ...[text shortened]... elieve is correct* but then I would just counter and say "no...what I believe is correct" 🙄
    I understand that, and I accept it as something that will be with us all
    no matter what our beliefs are. If the foundation of my beliefs is false
    or anyone else's than all I/we build upon it can be wrong that is always
    the case.
    Kelly
  14. Joined
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    04 Sep '06 18:412 edits
    Originally posted by Agerg
    but who defines heaven...the person who's going there or the god itself? what if heaven was just a place where nasty people get to fight even nastier people for the rest of eternity and for the strong nasty people they get to wearily spend all eternity having to vanquish others just to stay aware of their existence, bad god on the other hand could be happy as hen it won't get anymore pocket money?

    what if a million more absurd but valid arguments?
    The assumption is that heaven is paradise, ie there is not fighting, contention, suffering, etc. Otherwise it would not be heaven, rather, it would be better equated with a type of hell. In suh a scenerio all would go to hell. Therefore, this would be the only possible scenerio if God were a "bad" God. All people would go to hell if God were a bad God.

    Another thing to consider is if only "bad" people went to heaven, how could such people preserve it as such? Why would they want to preserve it as such?
  15. Standard memberAgerg
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    04 Sep '06 18:443 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    The assumption is that heaven is paradise, ie there is not fighting, contention, suffering, etc. Otherwise it would not be heaven, rather, it would be better equated with a type of hell. In suh a scenerio all would go to hell. Therefore, this would be the only possible scenerio if God were a "bad" God.
    But not necessarily *my* assumption! and as I said (actually editted in later) a bad god might have a bazillion reasons for sending people to a nice heaven and need not be bound by some code that he must not!

    what if heaven was a place where they could do all the things they were never capable of doing on earth (or any other planet that supports life)...they might wish to preserve it then!...crikey...they might want to fight for it 😉
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