1. DonationPawnokeyhole
    Krackpot Kibitzer
    Right behind you...
    Joined
    27 Apr '02
    Moves
    16879
    04 Sep '06 13:25
    ... send people to heaven and hell?

    Easily.
  2. Standard memberdj2becker
    Tiger's ghost
    Shetland cemetery
    Joined
    01 Oct '04
    Moves
    11829
    04 Sep '06 13:32
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    ... send people to heaven and hell?

    Easily.
    You can define anything the way you want it to be.

    Unless you have an absolute point of reference.
  3. DonationPawnokeyhole
    Krackpot Kibitzer
    Right behind you...
    Joined
    27 Apr '02
    Moves
    16879
    04 Sep '06 13:34
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    You can define anything the way you want it to be.

    Unless you have an absolute point of reference.
    But isn't the choice of an absolute point of reference equally arbitrary?
  4. Standard memberdj2becker
    Tiger's ghost
    Shetland cemetery
    Joined
    01 Oct '04
    Moves
    11829
    04 Sep '06 13:41
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    But isn't the choice of an absolute point of reference equally arbitrary?
    In order to make sense of reality you require an absolute point of reference.
  5. DonationPawnokeyhole
    Krackpot Kibitzer
    Right behind you...
    Joined
    27 Apr '02
    Moves
    16879
    04 Sep '06 13:421 edit
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    In order to make sense of reality you require an absolute point of reference.
    Maybe. But you didn't answer my question. I repeat: isn't your choice of an absolute point of reference arbitrary?
  6. Standard memberdj2becker
    Tiger's ghost
    Shetland cemetery
    Joined
    01 Oct '04
    Moves
    11829
    04 Sep '06 13:451 edit
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Maybe. But you didn't answer my question. I repeat: isn't your choice of an absolute point of reference arbitrary?
    I guess if you choose not to make sense of reality you are free to do so.
  7. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    05 Sep '06 10:09
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Maybe. But you didn't answer my question. I repeat: isn't your choice of an absolute point of reference arbitrary?
    What do you mean by "arbitrary"?
  8. DonationPawnokeyhole
    Krackpot Kibitzer
    Right behind you...
    Joined
    27 Apr '02
    Moves
    16879
    05 Sep '06 13:09
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    What do you mean by "arbitrary"?
    I mean, why agree with the alleged pronouncements of a deity on morality? What makes them automatically valid? Why not use Peter Singer's pronoucements instead as a non-arbitrary reference point, and then judge all other moralities as arbitrary in light of it? dj2becker is not factoring in his own subjectivity in electing to subscribe Christian morality as a matter of faith.
  9. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    05 Sep '06 14:06
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    I mean, why agree with the alleged pronouncements of a deity on morality? What makes them automatically valid? Why not use Peter Singer's pronoucements instead as a non-arbitrary reference point, and then judge all other moralities as arbitrary in light of it? dj2becker is not factoring in his own subjectivity in electing to subscribe Christian morality as a matter of faith.
    Why adhere to the laws made by Congress? Why respect the executive authority of the President? Or the authority of the Supreme Court? What makes them automatically valid?
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    05 Sep '06 14:11
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Why adhere to the laws made by Congress? Why respect the executive authority of the President? Or the authority of the Supreme Court? What makes them automatically valid?
    The entities you mention are at least concrete. You can verify the existence of a Congressman, or the President, whatever his or her state of mind. Then if you disagree with a law you can protest, lobby, possibly effect change. The same cannot be said for YKW.
  11. Gangster Land
    Joined
    26 Mar '04
    Moves
    20732
    05 Sep '06 14:13
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Why adhere to the laws made by Congress? Why respect the executive authority of the President? Or the authority of the Supreme Court? What makes them automatically valid?
    Nothing makes them automatically valid. They are simply conditions for living free within the US. Whether or not they are 'valid' is not at issue.

    A-
  12. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    05 Sep '06 14:19
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    The entities you mention are at least concrete. You can verify the existence of a Congressman, or the President, whatever his or her state of mind. Then if you disagree with a law you can protest, lobby, possibly effect change. The same cannot be said for YKW.
    You haven't answered my questions.
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    05 Sep '06 14:22
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    You haven't answered my questions.
    Why adhere to the law? Out of agreement; out of fear; out of habit...Only force compels one to obey. Many don't.
  14. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    05 Sep '06 14:231 edit
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    Nothing makes them automatically valid. They are simply conditions for living free within the US. Whether or not they are 'valid' is not at issue.

    A-
    If nothing makes them "automatically" valid, then are they valid at all? If so why?

    You say the validity of these authorities is not at issue. I'm not sure Pkh would see things your way.

    In any case, if one were to assume your framework, one could just as easily say that divinely commanded/mandated/originated morality is simply the condition for living free within the universe (or anywhere, for that matter).
  15. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36063
    05 Sep '06 14:25
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Why adhere to the law? Out of agreement; out of fear; out of habit...Only force compels one to obey. Many don't.
    Do you believe that the laws of Congress are binding on residents of the US and its territories? Do you believe that people who violate these laws should be punished? Why or why not?
Back to Top