Originally posted by RJHindsWell either God is being deceptive or were missing something. I think were missing something.
Is it deceptive to create mankind fully grown rather than to combine
the sperm and the egg and then let them grow to maturity? I don't
see anything deceptive about it. Where is the deception? So Adam
and Eve might appear as if they had been living for 20 or 30 years
when they were only created yesterday. So what? God told us He
did it in a day. Als ...[text shortened]... ng yourself and not God deceiving you. Pay attention and
get your head out of your buttocks.
Manny
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Originally posted by sonhouseYou would think that when some one reads the Bible and after realizing it presents the earth as 6000 years old that they would leave the Bible where they found it.
Just wondered if you would announce yourselves. I am curious what percentage of the population of the US that represents.
If this one error is not enough to show the falsity of such a doctrine then what does that say about the millions who subscribe to its teachings.
The Bible.....the greatest fraud visited on mankind in human history......apart from evolution.
Originally posted by RJHindsIt depends. If Adam was created complete with childhood memories, then there is some deception going on.
Is it deceptive to create mankind fully grown rather than to combine
the sperm and the egg and then let them grow to maturity? I don't
see anything deceptive about it. Where is the deception? So Adam
and Eve might appear as if they had been living for 20 or 30 years
when they were only created yesterday.
So what? God told us He did it in a day. Also He told us He created the Heavens in an a short
time and then spreaded it out to occupy the space that was already there. I don't see any deception there. So it now takes a long time for light from those distant stars that he spread out to reach us. So
that does not mean they were made millions or billions of years ago.
It is not at all clear what you are saying.
If it has taken millions or billions of years for the light to reach us, then the light, logically, left the stars millions or billions of years ago. (which I believe you deny).
If the stars were created closer at a recent date but were then moved further away, we would not see them as further away, we would see them closer, and still have to wait millions or billions of years to find out that they had moved.
Originally posted by RJHindsNo you don't, you believe what the bible says, and you choose to believe that the bible is god's word. I would have thought you'd have to question that assumption if you have the grasp of science you claim, but there you go, I'm a rationalist.
Well, I believe what God says, rather than man on these matters, since
He is the one that made it all.
Originally posted by RJHindsMr Hinds and every other Christian.
That is because we believe in the Holy Bible as the Word of Truth.
If we think something disagrees with what God says, then it becomes
a suspect for error. So if our understanding of what the Holy Bible
says is correct, then anything that contradicts it must be in error.
But above all we are interested in the truth. We must stand up for
the truth, even against science until it can be proven true.
When deciding if doctrine is true or false you apply the acid test and this means you do not have to debate every single word of that doctrine..............so when the doctrine tells you to go and kill animals and eat the flesh, and it then tells you the earth is 6000 years old, and then it tells you that dead bodies will jump from the grave and walk away, you then know absolutely that the doctrine is false.
So why would any person in their right mind accept this nonsense?
Are they completely dishonest and foolish?
This is what is called blind acceptance. (no common sense is applied what so ever)
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Originally posted by twhiteheadIf it has taken millions or billions of years for the light to reach us, then the
It depends. If Adam was created complete with childhood memories, then there is some deception going on.
[b] So what? God told us He did it in a day. Also He told us He created the Heavens in an a short
time and then spreaded it out to occupy the space that was already there. I don't see any deception there. So it now takes a long time for light fr ...[text shortened]... m closer, and still have to wait millions or billions of years to find out that they had moved.
light, logically, left the stars millions or billions of years ago. This I do not
deny. But we don't know for a certainty that the light we are seeing left
the stars millions or billions or just a few thousand years ago. All we can
agree on is that we are not seeing the same light that left the stars today.
Some scientist are saying, even today, that the stars are moving away
from us faster than the speed of light. I have no idea why they believe
such a thing. But these are all theories that many have taken to be facts.
Originally posted by DasaI have been saying that for years. Except for evolution. You don't believe in evolution?
You would think that when some one reads the Bible and after realizing it presents the earth as 6000 years old that they would leave the Bible where they found it.
If this one error is not enough to show the falsity of such a doctrine then what does that say about the millions who subscribe to its teachings.
The Bible.....the greatest fraud visited on mankind in human history......apart from evolution.
Originally posted by RJHindsIt is not stars moving away from us faster than the speed of light, it is extremely distant galaxies, whole universes of stars all in orbit around a central black hole, literally billions of stars. The further away the galaxies are, the faster they separate.
If it has taken millions or billions of years for the light to reach us, then the
light, logically, left the stars millions or billions of years ago. This I do not
deny. But we don't know for a certainty that the light we are seeing left
the stars millions or billions or just a few thousand years ago. All we can
agree on is that we are not seeing the ...[text shortened]... a why they believe
such a thing. But these are all theories that many have taken to be facts.
That is why I said the estimate for the size of our universe is around 40 billion light years 'across' (not a good term for a 4 dimensional object) but 'only' 14 billion years old. That means we can only see stars, well galaxies actually, that are at most 13.7 billion light years away.
The rest of the bunch has receded so far that light did not have enough time to get to us and may never be visible, so most of the mass of the universe is not even visible. Of course most of the mass of what is in our field of view, 14 billion ly, is not visible anyway, we can deduce something is there but the amount of weird matter overwhelms our kind of matter by 20 to one.
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Originally posted by sonhouseThis would be the "Dark Matter" right?
It is not stars moving away from us faster than the speed of light, it is extremely distant galaxies, whole universes of stars all in orbit around a central black hole, literally billions of stars. The further away the galaxies are, the faster they separate.
That is why I said the estimate for the size of our universe is around 40 billion light years 'a omething is there but the amount of weird matter overwhelms our kind of matter by 20 to one.
I thought though we can only see to a certain point then we see the constant consistent Cosmic Background radiation that is seen in every direction (the original noise of the Big bang) which lies about 13-15 billion LY's out
Manny
Originally posted by RJHindsyes we do know for certain. it's called physics.
If it has taken millions or billions of years for the light to reach us, then the
light, logically, left the stars millions or billions of years ago. This I do not
deny. But we don't know for a certainty that the light we are seeing left
the stars millions or billions or just a few thousand years ago. All we can
agree on is that we are not seeing the ...[text shortened]... a why they believe
such a thing. But these are all theories that many have taken to be facts.
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Originally posted by menace71Yes, dark matter is the name they give it, but they can still get a rough idea of where it is because of gravitational lensing, like where a far distant galaxy sits directly in back of a much closer one, gravitation of the closer galaxy changes the path light travels on its way to Earth. By analyzing those paths they can deduce the presence of that dark matter we cannot see directly because of the distortion of the flight path, with such and such a mass in space and a lens in front, the path light takes would be different than a galaxy with simple regular mass only. There have been some interesting maps generated that way.
This would be the "Dark Matter" right?
I thought though we can only see to a certain point then we see the constant consistent Cosmic Background radiation that is seen in every direction (the original noise of the Big bang) which lies about 13-15 billion LY's out
Manny
Here is a long lecture about seeing dark matter:
https://webcast.stsci.edu/webcast/detail.xhtml;jsessionid=3BAB7D80585887D19265209957F51FF2?talkid=2427&parent=1
This one is a bit more accessible:
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/1914/967.full
Look at figure 6 and 7.
