How petty can a God be?

Originally posted by shavixmir
I don't know if arrogance is a sin or not, and to be quite honest, I don't give a damn either.
But Christians seem to me to be quite arrogant.

Well... not only Christians, let me be quite Frank (or Bob... see if I care) about this, humanity seems to me to be quite arrogant when it comes to religion.

But, to make my point a little smaller and easi ...[text shortened]... wrote this down? It's arrogance plain and simple.

Or God is petty.
Which is it?

Of course it is arrogance to assume that God created us in his image.

Come on Shav, you must realise this, a bright man like yourself!

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Once again you fail to impress with an over-simplistic evaluation of a very complex situation.

You might want to look a little deeper into this ........

That was actually quite witty Ivanhoe...

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Go on, Shav. Answer my question.

Could the idea that God is interested in us be hopeful rather than merely self-satisfied?

It sounds delusional to me.

Originally posted by howardgee
"This crazy little thing called life is not for His benefit to see how we will respond to grace, but rather for our benefit, for us to see how we will respond to grace."

So what is judgement day all about then?

Those who reject Him are judged for that bad decision.

Originally posted by shavixmir
That was actually quite witty Ivanhoe...

Yes, it was ...... 😉

Originally posted by shavixmir
[b]Could the idea that God is interested in us be hopeful rather than merely self-satisfied?

It sounds delusional to me.[/b]

But even if hopeful means delusional, it may exclude self-satisfied.

Shall I take that as a yes?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Those who reject Him are judged for that bad decision.

pathetic.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Those who reject Him are judged for that bad decision.

Freaky, if you had a kid, and the kid rejected God, would you be for or against your kid spending an eternity in hell, if God mandated it?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Freaky, if you had a kid, and the kid rejected God, would you be for or against your kid spending an eternity in hell, if God mandated it?

I have several children and they have all made positive decisions regarding salvation. Thanks for reminding me of one more thing for which to be thankful.

However, if one of them were to reject that gift, I would support their judgment.

Now it's my turn. If you had a child and someone killed your child after raping and torturing them, what would you want done to the person who performed the heinous acts?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I have several children and they have all made positive decisions regarding salvation. Thanks for reminding me of one more thing for which to be thankful.

However, if one of them were to reject that gift, I would support their judgment.

Now it's my turn. If you had a child and someone killed your child after raping and torturing them, what would you want done to the person who performed the heinous acts?

Obviously, I would feel like bashing the person's skull in.

However, I don't judge that to be the morally right thing to do. Vengence is hardly an infallible source of moral principle.

Similarly, I often feel like eating chocolate; that doesn't mean I think it's always the right thing to do. Emotion and desire can prevent, as much as enable, moral (or, in this analogy, prudential) behavior.

So, what would I want? I would want the perpetrator brought to justice and punished by imprisonment for the finite spell of his life.

I wouldn't want him to go to hell forever. What good would that serve?

To summarize:

I support putting a stranger who tortures and rapes my child in prison for a finite spell.

You support the damnation of your child to an eternity of agony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour (i.e., by becoming an atheist).

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Obviously, I would feel like bashing the person's skull in.

However, I don't judge that to be the morally right thing to do. Vengence is hardly an infallible source of moral principle.

Similarly, I often feel like eating chocolate; that doesn't mean I think it's always the right thing to do. Emotion and desire can prevent, as much as enable, moral ...[text shortened]... gony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour (i.e., by becoming an atheist).

So if the person who perpetrated the act was another of your children, you would feel like bashing their skull in, as well? Or would your anger be tempered by affection?

It is a limited analogy, of course. However, the parallels of similarity exist with their limited application. IMO, God has made Himself known, made the offer perspicuous. Anyone rejecting said offer is fully aware of the ramifications. As much as I love my children, I respect their autonomy more.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
So if the person who perpetrated the act was another of your children, you would feel like bashing their skull in, as well? Or would your anger be tempered by affection?

It is a limited analogy, of course. However, the parallels of similarity exist with their limited application. IMO, God has made Himself known, made the offer perspicuous. Anyone re ...[text shortened]... fully aware of the ramifications. As much as I love my children, I respect their autonomy more.

So, just to be absolutely clear on this:

I, FreakKBH, support the damnation of my child to an eternity of agony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour (i.e., by becoming an atheist).

Would you be prepared, before the RHP community, to endorse the statement above?

Originally posted by howardgee
' The thing about thinking that makes us different or unique is that it makes free will possible. A Dolphin just does what Dolphins do , there is no evidence that it thinks to itself "Hey , I'm a Dolphin , I wonder if ...." it just does what nature has programmed it to do.'

What utter nonsense.
Do you think nature has programmed dolphins to jump through hoops?

Nature has programmed it to respond to treaats (ie food) and perform whatever is neccesary to get that food. Don't be over impressed by simple tricks , even a slug can be made to perform.

Also , I doubt very much that the Dolphin thinks to itself " Hmm...I'm jumping through a hoop here ...I must be a Dolphin..I wonder whether those humans self reflect in the same way I do...do they ponder on the beauty of a sunset?...Do they wonder why or how it all got here..?" There are trillions of examples of humans doing this and not one to suggest a Dolphin does this.

Slight edit:

So, just to be absolutely clear on this:

I, FreakKBH, would support the damnation of my child to an eternity of agony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour (i.e., by becoming an atheist).

Would you be prepared, before the RHP community, to endorse the statement above?

Originally posted by knightmeister
Nature has programmed it to respond to treaats (ie food) and perform whatever is neccesary to get that food. Don't be over impressed by simple tricks , even a slug can be made to perform.

Also , I doubt very much that the Dolphin thinks to itself " Hmm...I'm jumping through a hoop here ...I must be a Dolphin..I wonder whether those humans self refle ...[text shortened]... e are trillions of examples of humans doing this and not one to suggest a Dolphin does this.

"it just does what nature has programmed it to do."

Responding to whistles to jump through hoops, back flip in the air, etc. is hardly what nature has programmed dolphins to do. This is in fact learned behaviour. Of course, the dolphin is rewarded with food, but the dolphin would continue to jump through hoops for a short while at least, even if food were withheld for by the trainer.
This proves beyond all doubt that the behaviour is not purely instinctive. Swimming in the sea and seeing a shoal of fish and making a dash to eat them would be instinctive behavious. Jumping through hoops for fish the dolphin cannot even see is not.

Also, how do you know that the dolphins are not self reflective? What behaviour (in theory) would satisfy you that they are self reflective?