How Religion Works

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Why is it nonsense? I dont quite follow.
I mean I totally agree with your post but these meditators wern't looking for divine intervention.
Like you say,"It comes down to whether we passively sit around and wait to be saved, or whether we actively use that inspiration to save ourselves". But there is more than one way to skin a cat ,and whether one ...[text shortened]... ust scraped in by the skin of their teeth. All that matters is that we are on the same page🙂

Your assertion that meditation can reduce crime rates is bullocks. Unless you mean it in the sense that meditation can provide people with the motivation to actively work at crime prevention, in which case it is an indirect cause. But if you mean that the act of meditation in and of itself will have a direct cause on the reduction crime, then that is what is utter nonsense. Meditation, or prayer, can act as a motivator for people to change themselves, but they have no intrinsic power of their own.

Originally posted by rwingett
Your assertion that meditation can reduce crime rates is bullocks. Unless you mean it in the sense that meditation can provide people with the motivation to actively work at crime prevention, in which case it is an indirect cause. But if you mean that the act of meditation in and of itself will have a direct cause on the reduction crime, then that is what i ...[text shortened]... t as a motivator for people to change themselves, but they have no intrinsic power of their own.

Oh, I see what you mean.
So how do you know its bullocks?

(bear in mind that I really dont care for refrences unless they back up a claim made by you. I will take your word for whatever you may have to say)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Oh, I see what you mean.
So how do you know its bullocks?

(bear in mind that I really dont care for refrences unless they back up a claim made by you. I will take your word for whatever you may have to say)

If prayer had any direct value it would be equally effective for subjects who did not know they were being prayed for as it is for subjects who do. The fact that this is not the case indicates that prayer has no direct value.

Originally posted by Agerg
I disagree...it could be argued actually that he prayed for a bike and "God" , out of love for all his precious humans made it such that some other poor sod could be deprived of their pride and joy by having their bike stolen (say that god tweaked things such that it was easier to steal somehow).
That the OP didn't get the bike by some means via which he was inally get the bike.

Thus a theist could argue the prayer was answered first time round.

Or there is no God and therefore neither prayer would be answered. That would be the thrust of what I was saying.

Originally posted by Badwater
Or there is no God and therefore neither prayer would be answered. That would be the thrust of what I was saying.

aye! I'm with you on that but the only point I myself wanted to make was that "...and to think otherwise would be quite delusional." doesn't seem justified if we're assuming (for the sake of argument as it appears 667joe did) a hypothetical god that does what the hell it likes.

Originally posted by Agerg
aye! I'm with you on that but the only point I myself wanted to make was that "...and to think otherwise would be quite delusional." doesn't seem justified if we're assuming (for the sake of argument as it appears 667joe did) a hypothetical god that does what the hell it likes.

*nods* I was assuming that the post was the sarcastic post of an athiest. 😉

Amazing how one can assume and infer such a wide variety of perspectives from a 6 short sentence post.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I saw some female tennis players mother praying in the stands when her daghter was in the tie-break.
I thought, "Geez shouldn't people be praying for wars to end and children to be fed,etc.?"

I dont pray myself but I dont discount the notion that prayers can help humanity.

There have been some studies done on people meditating in a certain city ...[text shortened]... hat the crime rate was lowered by 25% and that this could be predicted from previous studies.

Originally posted by karoly aczel

There have been some studies done on people meditating in a certain city and the crime rate went down when they did. The article said that the crime rate was lowered by 25% and that this could be predicted from previous studies.
You're at it again I see. Were these studies published in reputable peer reviewed journals? I'm going to bet the answer is 'no' 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Originally posted by karoly aczel

[b]There have been some studies done on people meditating in a certain city and the crime rate went down when they did. The article said that the crime rate was lowered by 25% and that this could be predicted from previous studies.
You're at it again I see. Were these studies published in reputable peer reviewed journals? I'm going to bet the answer is 'no' 🙂[/b]

The ass of this world is getting held together by the silent majority and those that pray and meditate and think positively and act positively because they know that there actions, however minor, is having some effect on the world and therefor is of value on a planet that is about to kill itself.

In quantum science the observer cant be separated from the experiment. The actions and even thoughts of the scientists affect the experiment. Are there any peer reviewed studies done on quantum theory?

(BTW the other refrences you requested are at a friends place. I have not avoided you on that issue)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The ass of this world is getting held together by the silent majority and those that pray and meditate and think positively and act positively because they know that there actions, however minor, is having some effect on the world and therefor is of value on a planet that is about to kill itself.

In quantum science the observer cant be separated from ...[text shortened]... the other refrences you requested are at a friends place. I have not avoided you on that issue)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The ass of this world is getting held together by the silent majority and those that pray and meditate and think positively and act positively because they know that there actions, however minor, is having some effect on the world and therefor is of value on a planet that is about to kill itself.
This is an unevidenced and unfalsifiable claim.

In quantum science the observer cant be separated from the experiment. The actions and even thoughts of the scientists affect the experiment. Are there any peer reviewed studies done on quantum theory?
Yes but as far as I'm aware none of them lend any support to your statement above about prayer and meditation. Can you point to one that does?

It is funny how people with very little expertise in quantum mechanics tend to recruit it in order to bolster support for whatever flavour of psychic woo-woo they are into.