How to receive Living Water according to Jesus

@divegeester said
Just answer my simple question thinkofone, what’s the matter?

Jesus said what you quoted. So what?

So whats the big deal that Jesus said it?

I think that is the problem when one extracts the divinity out of Jesus, rendering him just another human being with a powerful message. Finding his words profound carries no more gravitas than a chap who finds the words of Karl Marx (for example) profound.

@kellyjay said
Jesus tells us in Chapter 14 we need to believe in Him! You cannot take out a single line of a conversation without the rest of the context to understand the context of the conversation.

"“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me."

Of course we are to keep His commandments, but before Christ laid down His life for us we were at odds with God, ...[text shortened]... who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Belief without following the commandments = no Living Water or no Holy Spirit
Its the same as:
Faith without works is dead / useless

IF you follow the commandments THEN you get the Holy Spirit
IF you do good works THEN you get eternal life.

Jesus never said .. of course you are to do good works ..
Jesus said YOU MUST DO GOOD WORKS.
It is not optional.
Failure to do good works = damnation.

Your church doctrine continues to fail

@kellyjay said
If you are putting your faith in Jesus, believing in Him you are doing what He says, therefore, ask and receive.

lol. This makes it sound as if you are oblivious to the fact that He commanded his followers to do much more than believe in Him. Are you really that disingenuous?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think that is the problem when one extracts the divinity out of Jesus, rendering him just another human being with a powerful message. Finding his words profound carries no more gravitas than a chap who finds the words of Karl Marx (for example) profound.

You might be missing my point slightly.

Thinkofone knows exactly what I’m doing and I know exactly why he won’t reply. He’s a fake believer in the words of Christ, an intellectual fraud. My question is a checkmate question...

If he answers he either has to lie about his fake belief in the gravitas of Jesus words or acknowledge that Jesus was sent by God because he said he was.

@thinkofone said
lol. This makes it sound as if you are oblivious to the fact that He commanded his followers to do much more than believe in Him. Are you really that disingenuous?

I read more than one passage of scripture in the Bible, what does John 14: 1 say?
Believing in Him is the start it doesn't end there, it begins.

@rajk999 said
Belief without following the commandments = no Living Water or no Holy Spirit
Its the same as:
Faith without works is dead / useless

IF you follow the commandments THEN you get the Holy Spirit
IF you do good works THEN you get eternal life.

Jesus never said .. of course you are to do good works ..
Jesus said YOU MUST DO GOOD WORKS.
It is not optional.
Failure to do good works = damnation.

Your church doctrine continues to fail

No one is saying don't do good works, except you as you accuse others of things not said by them.

@kellyjay said
I read more than one passage of scripture in the Bible, what does John 14: 1 say?
Believing in Him is the start it doesn't end there, it begins.

That's right. I doesn't end with John 14:1. That's been my point all along.

Jesus goes on to say that keeping His commandments ( plural!) is required to receive the Spirit of Truth. As a point of emphasis, He says it three different ways. How many more different ways would He have needed to say it for you to understand it? Or is it simply that you don't believe Him?

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...

@thinkofone said
That's right. I doesn't end with John 14:1. That's been my point all along.

Jesus goes on to say that keeping His commandments ( plural!) is required to receive the Spirit of Truth. As a point of emphasis, He says it three different ways. How many more different ways would He have needed to say it for you to understand it? Or is it simply that you don't believe Him?
...[text shortened]... e will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...

The point is we must put our faith in Him, ask Him for the Holy Spirit, then we will be walking the walk He has for us, for we will be HIS workmanship in Christ . You cannot even see the Kingdom of God without the Spirit of God, so how are you are you going to be doing the works of God, to earn the right, to do the works of God without God?

You need to read more than one passage of scripture to rightly divide it, if you did you'd know this! The natural man without the Spirit of God does only those things the natural man can do, they cannot please God, they don't have the Spirit of God within them.

Romans 8:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

@divegeester said
You might be missing my point slightly.

Thinkofone knows exactly what I’m doing and I know exactly why he won’t reply. He’s a fake believer in the words of Christ, an intellectual fraud. My question is a checkmate question...

If he answers he either has to lie about his fake belief in the gravitas of Jesus words or acknowledge that Jesus was sent by God because he said he was.

Yep. And as he won't answer that question I have presupposed that he doesn't believe Jesus was sent by God (despite him clearly saying he was) but still views him as delivering a profound message. (This seems in keeping with other things he has posted about stripping away the miracles and the like from the Gospels). - Hence my point that such a profound message would still only be words spoken by another human being.

@kellyjay said
The point is we must put our faith in Him, ask Him for the Holy Spirit, then we will be walking the walk He has for us, for we will be HIS workmanship in Christ . You cannot even see the Kingdom of God without the Spirit of God, so how are you are you going to be doing the works of God, to earn the right, to do the works of God without God?

You need to read more than one ...[text shortened]... f the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Okay. You made it clear that you don't believe what Jesus is saying in John 14: 15-17, 21, 23-14. Evidently you believe that the dogma you've been taught supersedes what Jesus explicitly states there.

@thinkofone said
Okay. You made it clear that you don't believe what Jesus is saying in John 14: 15-17, 21, 23-14. Evidently you believe that the dogma you've been taught supersedes what Jesus explicitly states there.

I believe what it says in John, I don't believe you in what you say it all means.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yep. And as he won't answer that question I have presupposed that he doesn't believe Jesus was sent by God (despite him clearly saying he was) but still views him as delivering a profound message. (This seems in keeping with other things he has posted about stripping away the miracles and the like from the Gospels). - Hence my point that such a profound message would still only be words spoken by another human being.

It’s been his gambit here for years and is probably difficult for him to find a new angle.

I’m reminded of booming voice calling out “take no notice of man behind the curtain” in the original wizard of oz, as he continues to furiously spin his wheels and pulls his little levers.

@kellyjay said
I believe what it says in John, I don't believe you in what you say it all means.

Tell you what. Find someone you trust who has halfway decent critical thinking skills and reading comprehension skills. Ask them what conditions Jesus establishes for receiving the Spirit of Truth in the following three passages. Can you do that?

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...

@thinkofone said
Tell you what. Find someone you trust who has halfway decent critical thinking skills and reading comprehension skills. Ask them what conditions Jesus establishes for receiving the Spirit of Truth in the following three passages. Can you do that?

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, th ...[text shortened]... e will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...

And your point?
I don't deny if we love Him we will keep His commandments.
I don't deny if we will be given another Helper, I actually say that is required.
I don't deny that the world cannot receive Him, the world is blind to the things of God.

I don't deny anyone who loves the Lord will obey Him, I don't deny those that love the Lord will be abiding in Him.

I don't deny that God will abide in us and we in God, and we will keep His Word.

I deny we cannot earn this by our own righteousness, we need God's grace through faith to receive the righteousness of God.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

@kellyjay said
And your point?
I don't deny if we love Him we will keep His commandments.
I don't deny if we will be given another Helper, I actually say that is required.
I don't deny that the world cannot receive Him, the world is blind to the things of God.

I don't deny anyone who loves the Lord will obey Him, I don't deny those that love the Lord will be abiding in Him.

I don' ...[text shortened]... ich is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You still haven't been able to comprehend my point? After you've been dodging the same point for umpteen posts now? It's all about what Jesus says about who receives the Spirit of Truth in the passages cited from John 14. How can you still not understand that?