@thinkofone saidOnce again ToO mindlessly trolls Kelly about his honesty.
And KJ has once again resorted to mindlessly regurgitating the dogma that he'd been taught as a way to avoid addressing the passages cited from John 14 in a direct and meaningful way. This has been going on since the top of page 2. KJ is an exceedingly dishonest person.
KJ not only doesn't have the spirit of truth. KJ hates the truth.
No doubt, on a psychological level, this makes him feel better about his own shortcomings.
5 edits
@rajk999 said
Not one single sentence there is from the mouth of Jesus Christ. All of it is misinterpreted church nonsense and is the result of twisting the teachings of Paul and the Apostles.
Jesus was clear. It is only when you have followed the commandments it is then you are given the Holy Spirit. This would mean that the Holy Spirit is not given out willy-nilly to every Tom Dick ...[text shortened]... does no good works does not have God.
A profess atheist who does good works does in fact have God.
This point you made is absolutely true We cannot do the works of God without God,. You are therefore saying that someone who does good works have God in them, and someone who does no good works does not have God in them.
Therefore a professed Christian who does no good works does not have God.
A profess atheist who does good works does in fact have God.
Ezekiel 33
17“Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But it is their way that is not just. 18 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. 19 And if a wicked person turns away from their wickedness and does what is just and right, they will live by doing so. 20 Yet you Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But I will judge each of you according to your own ways.”
Matthew 16
27“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
John 5
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Luke 13
23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them,
24“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’
3 edits
Ezekiel 33
17“Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But it is their way that is not just. 18 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. 19 And if a wicked person turns away from their wickedness and does what is just and right, they will live by doing so. 20 Yet you Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But I will judge each of you according to your own ways.”
Question for anyone:
Can God in the Old Testament be silent about a person's eternal destiny WHILE warning him that He will be just Judge concerning his temporal living?
My answer: Yes. God can withhold revelation about eternal destinies until another time, yet still warn men of His equity, justness, and righteous dealings of serious consequences.
The theme of grace of the Gospel of Luke or John does not have to be fully elaborated on in the Old Covenant book of Ezekiel.
Matthew 16
27“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Question to anyone:
Can God "repay" anyone by OTHER MEANS besides deprive them of eternal life?
My answer: Yes. God is not limited to only ONE means to punish His people - deprive them of eternal redemption and eternal life. God may eternally save yet still "repay" through discipline for a saved person's perfection.
John 5
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Question to anyone: Can Christ speak of a dichotomy of doing good verses doing evil in terms of being in His will or being out of and against His will?
My answer: Yes. Christ can speak of believing in Him and all that must eventually issue from believing in Him either now or latter as doing good, and disbelieving in Him and all that issues from disbelief in Him as doing evil.
You can have your own opinion about these passages. I simply explain what is a problem with you is not a problem for me. That's all. You believe what you want.
None of the three passages nullifies the Gospel of grace NOR do them encourage the forgiven in grace to remain far from God in their daily living.
1 edit
@sonship saidJaywill, read the passages as a whole (both within context of themselves and of each other) instead of looking at each passage as if were said in a vacuum and read them in within the context of what was quoted from Rajk999.
@ThinkOfOne
[quote] Ezekiel 33
17“Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But it is their way that is not just. 18 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. 19 And if a wicked person turns away from their wickedness and does what is just and right, they will live by doing so. 20 Yet you Israelites say, [b] ...[text shortened]... l of grace NOR do them encourage the forgiven in grace to remain far from God in their daily living.
@sonship saidChrist can and God can, do whatever is just in their eyes on the day of judgment. That issue however is not shrouded in mystery as you seem to want to believe. The issue of judgment and who it is that enter the Kingdom of God and what criteria must be satisfied is clearly stated. You rather ignore it.
@ThinkOfOne
[quote] Ezekiel 33
17“Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But it is their way that is not just. 18 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. 19 And if a wicked person turns away from their wickedness and does what is just and right, they will live by doing so. 20 Yet you Israelites say, [b] ...[text shortened]... l of grace NOR do them encourage the forgiven in grace to remain far from God in their daily living.
Evil doers are cast out of the Kingdom of God
Those who live in unrighteousness will not inherit the Kingdom of God
The righteous who do good works will get eternal life.
Those who defile themselves will be destroyed
It is better if these people did not know Christ in the first place than to know and reject Him.
These issues are clearly stated.
There is no silence on the eternal destiny of evil doers.
3 edits
@rajk999 saidGod explicitly and plainly explained the concept in Ezekiel 33 as well as other places.
Christ can and God can, do whatever is just in their eyes on the day of judgment. That issue however is not shrouded in mystery as you seem to want to believe. The issue of judgment and who it is that enter the Kingdom of God and what criteria must be satisfied is clearly stated. You rather ignore it.
Evil doers are cast out of the Kingdom of God
Those who live in unright ...[text shortened]...
These issues are clearly stated.
There is no silence on the eternal destiny of evil doers.
Jesus echoed the concept in Matthew 13, John 5 and Luke 13 as well as other places.
The concept is really pretty simple. The disingenuous and sometimes convoluted mental gymnastics employed to deny it never cease to amaze me.
@thinkofone saidIts all caused by greater loyalty to the doctrine of the church. The doctrine of Christ and the Apostles take second place. Sonship thinks that no eternal life, or cast out of the Kingdom of God can still mean eternal life in the Kingdom of God. The man sadly is unable to accept that his church is astray.
God explicitly and plainly explained the concept in Ezekiel 33 as well as other places.
Jesus echoed the concept in Matthew 13, John 5 and Luke 13 as well as other places.
The concept is really pretty simple. The disingenuous and sometimes convoluted mental gymnastics employed to deny it never cease to amaze me.
@thinkofone saidYou ready to be judged for your ways?
[quote]This point you made is absolutely true We cannot do the works of God without God,. You are therefore saying that someone who does good works have God in them, and someone who does no good works does not have God in them.
Therefore a professed Christian who does no good works does not have God.
A profess atheist who does good works does in fact have God.[/quote ...[text shortened]... will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’
@rajk999 saidYou ready to be judged for your ways?
Its all caused by greater loyalty to the doctrine of the church. The doctrine of Christ and the Apostles take second place. Sonship thinks that no eternal life, or cast out of the Kingdom of God can still mean eternal life in the Kingdom of God. The man sadly is unable to accept that his church is astray.
@thinkofone saidAnswer the question and I will tell you
It's difficult to come up with a reasonable line of thought would lead to a question such as this.
How did you arrive at this question and what does it have to do with the content of my post?
@thinkofone saidEvidently you found another question among many you cannot answer.
Evidently you've tossed out yet another red herring rather than address the words of God and Jesus that I cited in my post. You have a long history of doing this.