Hugh Ross - False Teacher

Originally posted by FMF
And do you ever speculate as to whether you yourself could be "deceived by Satan"?

Thats it FMF. Perfect follow up question. Thanks. You have done all that you can now lets see where he takes us this time. Maybe back to helleluyah land or who knows what new wonderous links he has instore for us...

Originally posted by FMF
And do you ever speculate as to whether you yourself could be "deceived by Satan"?

Yes, one has to be constantly on the alert for that. Satan is very tricky. But the Holy Spirit can drive him away. HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, one has to be constantly on the alert for that. Satan is very tricky. But the Holy Spirit can drive him away. HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!

But thats a very tricky answer because it fails to answer the actual question. Nice bit of word play , is all.

Originally posted by RJHinds
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
The Lord is one, And His name one.

(Zechariah 14:9 NKJV)

I only want eternal life to be with the Lord forever. I will not have to go to heaven for that.

As for the purpose of animals and plants, we can only speculate from what He said to the man and women after He created the rbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

(Genesis 9:1-4 NKJV)[/b]

And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
The Lord is one, And His name one.

(Zechariah 14:9 NKJV)

I only want eternal life to be with the Lord forever. I will not have to go to heaven for that.

Good answer. Of course the Christian is with the Lord now (Matt. 28:20) until the consummation of the age.

Do you hear how much an evangelist like Billy Graham talks about going to heaven ? Would you say Billy Graham might be charged as a "false teacher" with his over emphasis on going to heaven, the same way Hugh Ross is called "false teacher" for his Day Age theory ?

With hundreds of Baptist preachers writing tracts and preaching messages emphasizing "going to heaven" could they conceivably be labelled "false teachers" the same way you label Hugh Ross "false teacher" ?

As for the purpose of animals and plants, we can only speculate from what He said to the man and women after He created them.

So then speculate. If before the Fall and sin and death entered into the world, man killed plants in order that they would be food, then we might have to reconsider the scope of death, before Adam's fall.

Is Hugh Ross a "false teacher" for teaching out of his speculation on this aided by his knowledge of science ? I think its a bit hard on him to follow a rival orginization whose seems out to shut up everyone who disagrees with them.

Maybe you just bought into some rival organization to Reasons To Believe like AiG - Answers in Genesis. Maybe you just bought into someone hating to lose their "turf". Maybe you just bought into the competition who wants to scare you with the danger of listening to anyone else but them.

Maybe these guys just want to jealously protect their turf.

http://www.trueorigin.org/hughross02.asp

Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

(Genesis 1:28-30 NKJV)

We know for sure some plants were intended to be the food of both animals and humans from the very beginning. At that time there was nothing said about animals being eaten for food. I guess this does not prevent animals from doing so, however. It was not until after the flood of Noah's time that God said anything about man being permitted by God to eat animals as food.

So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

(Genesis 9:1-4 NKJV)

I guess there was something in all this that I was not suppose to realize ?
I'm not sure what your point was. I did get to read and accept these passages long ago.

The death I was talking about was of plants BEFORE the fall.
The death I was talking about was possibly of animals BEFORE the fall.

We all know that afterwards (especially after the Flood) both plants and animals served as man's diet.

I think death was happening before Adam sinned in a pre-Adamic world.
YEC explanations claiming this to be heretical and impossible are not the strongest reasons. They can be shown to be weak reasons.

And though I don't think Day Age is the intended conveyance of Genesis 1, I do share with Ross an Older Earth or Older Universe than YEC teaches.

And many YEC interpreters I have read seem fuzzy and unaware of the prophetic past utterances about the history of the Anointed Cherub who became our enemy Satan. It seems the most vocal of them HAVE to misunderstand any pre-Adamic rebellion of Satan in order to maintain the universe of only one week old by the beginning of Genesis 2.

Do you think in only a few days such a great cosmic rebellion was quickly hatched so that a lying creature was there to derail God's plan as soon as Adam and Eve were created and placed in the garden ?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Fellow Christians be careful not to be deceived by the false teachings of Hugh Ross.

Ross believes in progressive creationism, which posits that while the earth is billions of years old, life did not appear by natural forces alone but that a supernatural agent formed different lifeforms in incremental (progressive) stages, and day-age creationism which is some problems with the speculations of Hugh Ross.

http://www.trueorigin.org/hughross02.asp

how do you account for the fact that Paul stated that Christians could enter into Gods
rest day, thousands of years later?

(Hebrews 4:11) . . .Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, . . .

Okay RJHinds, I am reading through your link now.

I hope you noticed that the critic does say Hugh Ross does not teach classic biological evolution ?

To accomplish this harmonization of the Bible and science, Ross has embraced much of what modern science has to say about origins. In short, Ross supports the big bang theory, the 4.6 Ga (1 Ga = 109 years) age of the earth, and virtually all of what establishment paleontology claims about the history of life on earth including the order of appearance of different groups. In fairness to Ross, it should be emphasized that he does reject the concept of biological evolution, opting instead for progressive creation.

my emphasis.

Originally posted by jaywill
Okay RJHinds, I am reading through your link now.

I hope you noticed that the critic does say Hugh Ross does not teach classic biological evolution ?

To accomplish this harmonization of the Bible and science, Ross has embraced much of what modern science has to say about origins. In short, Ross supports the big bang theory, the 4.6 Ga (1 ...[text shortened]... ological evolution, opting instead for progressive creation.

my emphasis.[/b]

Okay. But how about reading the following link and tell me what you think.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v17/n2/creation

So, if I understand you correctly, if a Bible teacher fails to wholly reject reason and evidence, his or her teaching is false.

Originally posted by RJHinds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_tORtmKIjE

they're pretty good.

Originally posted by jaywill

And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
The Lord is one, And His name one.

(Zechariah 14:9 NKJV)

I only want eternal life to be with the Lord forever. I will not have to go to heaven for that.

Good answer. Of course the Christian is with the Lord now [b](Matt. 28:20) until the consumma l God's plan as soon as Adam and Eve were created and placed in the garden ?[/b]

I am not really up on every thing the YEC teach in their organizations. But I do agree with the fact tha the Earth is young and not old. I haven't bought into there beliefs, because I don't even know what they believe other than when I google something I am enterested in and find someone that agrees with me and see their reasoning. I have no intention of joining and supporting them at this time, so you can rest easy. The information I gave you came from:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

You might like to check out
http://creation.com/

I really haven't looked at anything either of these ministries write other than what comes up when I google a topic. I did buy a book from creation.com called "The Creastion Answers Book" at it came up on a topic, but I have been procrastinating on reading it all.

God never said plants were living souls like He did with man and certain animals. (The soul that sins shall die.)

The only point of my quoted verses was to emphasis the fact that certain plants were intended as food for both animals and humans from the very beginning of creation. There is no assumption in that.

I saw no indication that God said anything about animals being used for food until after the flood. But there are certain assumptions one might make on this matter, since there is no specific prohibition against animals being eaten as food at an earlier time either. You might call this the "Dasa Assumption." 😀

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am not really up on every thing the YEC teach in their organizations. But I do agree with the fact tha the Earth is young and not old. I haven't bought into there beliefs, because I don't even know what they believe other than when I google something I am enterested in and find someone that agrees with me and see their reasoning. I have no intention of eaten as food at an earlier time either. You might call this the "Dasa Assumption." 😀

I saw no indication that God said anything about animals being used for food until after the flood.

That's right.

But fossils of carnivors like T-Rex probably indicate certain flesh eating in a world which now, NO human recollection of such beasts exist.

It must have been part of some pre-Adamic order. Nobody remembers dinosaurs like this. At LEAST with a flood there are multiple traditions from multiple ancient cultures.

At least with human longevity, there is some other ancient traditions of people living very long numbers of years.

At least we have in human memory remnants of other matters vaguely reminiscent of something read in Genesis. But with a world filled with huge lizard like creatures we have nothing in human memory as a candidate.

It is possible that tales of great dragons were the result of ancient people FINDING dinosaur bones themselves in the ground before the abundant discoveries in the industrial age. It is possible that they looked at such large fossils and the spun legends of giants and dragons followed.

I think such an abundance of creatures seen on a regular basis should have been passed on by ancient peoples like a terrible Flood was in which only a few chosen were saved.

If dinos were pre-Adamic, then there was death, disease, killing, flesh eating in that world prior to human existence. At present I think so.

Originally posted by jaywill

I saw no indication that God said anything about animals being used for food until after the flood.

That's right.

But fossils of carnivors like T-Rex probably indicate certain flesh eating in a world which now, NO human recollection of such beasts exist.

It must have been part of some pre-Adamic order. Nobody remembers dinosaurs ...[text shortened]... disease, killing, flesh eating in that world prior to human existence. At present I think so.

Speaking of T-Rex, look at this:

YouTube