Hypothetical question for anyone

@Rajk999

Tormented as in tortured ? Hit me with a scripture I’m always keen to learn.

@medullah said
@Rajk999

Tormented as in tortured ? Hit me with a scripture I’m always keen to learn.

First tell me what you think the following terms mean:
- punished
- tormented
- tortured {not in the bible as something done by God]

I will go first. Punish can mean anything from withdrawal of rewards promised, to torment in hell fire. Both extremes are in the bible Torment is described in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus, and also in Revelation.

Torture is only in the bible describing what a man does to another man, not something God does.

@medullah said
@divegeestStop teaching false doctrines, short and simple.

Ok right, fair enough...

But I am trying to get you to focus on the point in question; which is what you would say to someone who does believe in eternal torture, and continues to believe it, and yet rather than try to convince people to come to god to avoid being burnt alive for eternity, they spend all of the spare time blogging their doctrines on the internet, knowing that all these people will be in hell being tortured?

How can a person say they believe that stuff, and then do nothing to prevent non-Christian neighbours, friends and family going to their torture?

@divegeester

We have several things in the mix assuming the position as you have stated.

1) The person might have already tried to speak with their family and the message been rejected; the relatives may discern that the teaching is unscriptural or may simply not agree; this scenario could apply to a range of doctrinal points including idolatry; homosexuality; sex before marriage; supporting Tottenham 😛

2) You don’t brow-beat your family (or friends) with religion, else you’ll lose them. You’re better off to trying and win them over with your conduct, which is a scriptural principle in drawing relatives to the faith (2 Pet 3:1), albeit that we are both agreed that the interpretation is wrong in this case.

3) There is also a scriptural principle that if you are too close to somebody that your message may not by heeded anyway (Luke 4:24)

4) In the case of approaching complete strangers with your beliefs it’s a different ball game to somebody that you already know (I’m sure that you must have done cold calling in your sales days). It won’t be like this forum where you can run away if you get it wrong, once you have opened the conversation in the flesh then clearly you would be locked in. Just starting the conversation by itself is going to be a challenge, and you will have to be clear in your mind what your message is (again like selling). In short you will have to know the material.

5) Other obstacles to evangelising will be things like fear of man; never underestimate that one; it will take courage to do this sort of thing. How big are the balls of our hypothetical person? Also, if the doctrinal position of a denomination (variation/sect/cult whatever) is flawed then a discerning alert individual trained highly enough in the scriptures may see it and push back and start challenging things or even leave. You imagine the impact on faiths based on traditions if their faithful had intensive bible training; people may leave in droves?

6) Temperament is also going to be a factor (again sales principals). If somebody gets in your face you have got to have the control/reserve/humility not to bite and come back with a mild answer; that again could be a tall order for some – how calm and level headed is our individual?

@medullah said
@divegeester

We have several things in the mix assuming the position as you have stated.

1) The person might have already tried to speak with their family and the message been rejected; the relatives may discern that the teaching is unscriptural or may simply not agree; this scenario could apply to a range of doctrinal points including idolatry; homosexuality; sex bef ...[text shortened]... ild answer; that again could be a tall order for some – how calm and level headed is our individual?

I don’t think the principle in focus here has anything whatsoever to do with “temperament”, “brow-beating”, “fear of man”, rejection”, “being too close” to the person, “cold calling” or “the size of their balls” or whatever other excuses can be found.

If I truly believed, as a spirit filled Christian, that non-Christians would be heading to hell to be burnt alive for eternity turn I would not allow ANYTHING to stop me speaking to people about it, and I would rely of the power of the spirit to give me the words. As you will well know there is plenty of old and New Testament precedent for that.

No, I think wasting ones time in here (as sonship does), blogging relentlessly at a handful people who find him and his particular version of Jesus distasteful and lacking credibility, is more of a representation of the blatant disregard for what he claims to believe.

Either that or he doesn’t truly believe it, or worse ... doesn’t care.

@divegeester

I understand but try and present a balanced view.

Kind of related, do you feel that we are in any sort of judgmental situation at this point of time DG ?

@medullah said
@divegeester

I understand but try and present a balanced view.

Kind of related, do you feel that we are in any sort of judgmental situation at this point of time DG ?

I think your honest and straightforward view would be more palatable, if I’m being myself, honest and straightforward.

No I think we are under grace. Judgment comes after death and I see no reason or scripture to assume otherwise. I find that people who promote a we, they or them are under judgment kind of thinking, are generally just being judgmental themselves.

@divegeester

A very important point, not to be judgemental. Yet at the same time you have to be discerning.

@rajk999 said
First tell me what you think the following terms mean:
- punished
- tormented
- tortured {not in the bible as something done by God]

I will go first. Punish can mean anything from withdrawal of rewards promised, to torment in hell fire. Both extremes are in the bible Torment is described in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus, and also in Revelation.

Torture is only in the bible describing what a man does to another man, not something God does.

Punished - to be reproved at a price to the person being punished?

Tormented - I believe that the root Greek word is Basanistes, which I believe can be confused. It denotes imprisonment, or Jail?

Tortured - a guess, but I would have thought to either inflict ongoing pain?

Although I agree with your example of Lazurus, I don't feel that there is a literal hell fire, which has been promoted primarily through Catholicism?

Over to you :-)

@medullah said
Punished - to be reproved at a price to the person being punished?

Tormented - I believe that the root Greek word is Basanistes, which I believe can be confused. It denotes imprisonment, or Jail?

Tortured - a guess, but I would have thought to either inflict ongoing pain?

Although I agree with your example of Lazurus, I don't feel that there is a literal hell fire, which has been promoted primarily through Catholicism?

Over to you :-)

Jesus referenced hell, hellfire, burning, weeping and gnashing of teeth and torment too many times for it not to be a real place, or real future events. What the Catholic doctrine has done is to embellish and exaggerate the concept of hell fire, but it is Jesus who taught that it exists and it should be feared. The exact nature of hell is not clear, but it is certainly not eternal torment for people, just a place of torment, annihilation and destruction of the soul.

To say it does not exist is like saying that Jesus is preaching a false doctrine.

@medullah said
@divegeester

A very important point, not to be judgemental. Yet at the same time you have to be discerning.

We use judgment all the time, it’s not the same as spiritually “judging” someone as to wether they are good enough.

But you asked me if I thought we were under judgment and I answered you, do you have reason for asking or were you just changing the subject?