@divegeester saidSonship, I think, is probably a maladaptive [and an occasionally malignant] narcissist. [He appears to realize this and has offered a catch-all apology for it once or twice. When his own behaviour and demeanour gets a bit too much for even him, he skulks off for a few days or weeks or months] I sometimes wonder if he can actually believe that the morally incoherent stupendous violence supposedly perpetrated by his God figure is real WHILE, at the same time, believing that prattling on about Witness Lee to one man and his dog is what he ought to be doing.
What would be the more moral thing for person A to do:
1) spend their available time blogging on a website to a limited audience of detractors?
@fmf saidsonship,
Sonship, I think, is probably a maladaptive [and an occasionally malignant] narcissist.
I am not claiming your beliefs are excrement or that you are under the influence of the most evil being ever imagined by humans. Nothing like that. No. I am simply commenting on the weakness of your character and intellect. I don't use the terms above in a scientific way, and instead use them as they are often used in conversation.
@divegeester saidWhat would you do?
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
Keep breathing.
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true?
Well, since the Bible teaches that our next breath is held by God I would hope I will continue to breath.
Would your life be different?
If by 'different' you mean growth, then I think I'll just keep growing each day as I am being cleansed "by the washing of water by the word" and "conformed to the image of his son."
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@secondson saidYour avoidance of the point is noted, thanks for turning up.
What would you do?
Keep breathing.
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true?
Well, since the Bible teaches that our next breath is held by God I would hope I will continue to breath.
Would your life be different?
If by 'd ...[text shortened]... s I am being cleansed "by the washing of water by the word" and "conformed to the image of his son."
@divegeester saidI would try and warn people of that as best that I could.
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
That goes for any situation where I thought life was at stake, even as just a human being I would try to prevent or avoid somebody being hurt if I could.
But I would add that I don’t believe in hell, eternal torment, or that it is supported in scripture.
@divegeester
I believe that the whole hell fire thing is a pagan teaching adopted and worked into the scriptures a control mechanism by unscrupulous religious bodies.
If (as I believe) God is a god of love. you can hardly call tormenting a person for eternity "an act of love". Furthermore the bible is clear that dead is dead, and there is no consciousness in death (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
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@medullah saidI agree.
@divegeester
I believe that the whole hell fire thing is a pagan teaching adopted and worked into the scriptures a control mechanism by unscrupulous religious bodies.
If (as I believe) God is a god of love. you can hardly call tormenting a person for eternity "an act of love". Furthermore the bible is clear that dead is dead, and there is no consciousness in death (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
What do you say to those proponents of the burning hell for eternity doctrine, who spend their time in places like this rather than evangelising, trying to save their non-Christian neighbours, friends and family?
To start with, the obligations of true Christians it is to preach; teach; and spread the word as directed by Jesus at Matt 28:19-20. The method of doing this (then) was recorded in the gospels and book of Acts, which at the time was face to face, in the markets, public places, and door to door.
We do see groups continuing with this (I’m ignoring doctrine for the purposes of this), probably the most famous being the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but also Mormons; various brethren such as Plymouth Brethren; a few places aligned to the C of E; and I even once had the Methodists round.
Under the current situation where we have viral fear and a lockdown, I would say that using the internet was fair game, if you are not just sounding off, but engaging with people mostly on an individual basis to teach or have reasoned discussion.
The caveat to any form of teaching is accuracy. After the apostles died the Church of Rome became the flag bearer of the faith and tainting it with its pagan doctrines, such as Hell Fire; the feast of Saturnalia (Christmas); and Easter. The problem with most variants of Christianity is that ultimately their teachings branch off from this tree.
@medullah saidThis is an example of how misunderstanding what is written in the bible can lead to false doctrines and teachings. Always one should look at the context and who Jesus or Paul is addressing before coming to a conclusion.
To start with, the obligations of true Christians it is to preach; teach; and spread the word as directed by Jesus at Matt 28:19-20. The method of doing this (then) was recorded in the gospels and book of Acts, which at the time was face to face, in the markets, public places, and door to door.
Here Jesus is addressing his 11 disciples only.
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@medullah saidRight ok, but what do you say to those proponents of the burning hell for eternity doctrine, who spend their time in places like this rather than evangelising, trying to save their non-Christian neighbours, friends and family from being burnt alive for eternity?
To start with, the obligations of true Christians it is to preach; teach; and spread the word as directed by Jesus at Matt 28:19-20. The method of doing this (then) was recorded in the gospels and book of Acts, which at the time was face to face, in the markets, public places, and door to door.
We do see groups continuing with this (I’m ignoring doctrine for the purposes ...[text shortened]... lem with most variants of Christianity is that ultimately their teachings branch off from this tree.
@divegeester
Stop teaching false doctrines, short and simple.
I really don’t get how any sane person can perpetuate this stuff about Hell, not if they are researched. Common sense should tell you that a god of love wouldn’t torture people. Scriptural incidents of judgement are usually quite quick, not protracted .
As for where they evangelise clearly they can’t go into a public place, but I see no problem with using the internet as I have already said.
So here’s one for you mr Divegeester - where do you feel that we are in terms of scriptural timelines?
@medullah saidIm not a believer in eternal torment for anyone. Revelation states that that punishment is reserved for the Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil. People who believe such things are mistaken, but you are equally mistaken if you think that a God of love will not punish or torment people who are evil and commit atrocious acts of cruelty. There are peoole who deserve torment and punishment and Christ was clear that this will happen.
@divegeester
Stop teaching false doctrines, short and simple.
I really don’t get how any sane person can perpetuate this stuff about Hell, not if they are researched. Common sense should tell you that a god of love wouldn’t torture people. Scriptural incidents of judgement are usually quite quick, not protracted .
As for where they evangelise clearly they can’t go ...[text shortened]... here’s one for you mr Divegeester - where do you feel that we are in terms of scriptural timelines?
@medullah saidOK, I have all kinds of personal beliefs as well but I know how to separate what I would like to happen from what the bible, and Jesus in particular, says. Its important to separate our opinions based on interpretation [or church doctrine] from what is clearly stated by Christ. When it comes to Christianity I would place the teachings of Christ way above everyone else.
@Rajk999
I don’t believe for one minute that anyone will get tortured, but punished for sure I agree.
Jesus says there are people who will be tormented