@divegeester said
The scenario is for both atheists and theists because it is a moral situation within which most people can theorise how they might behave in this thought experiment.

Obviously you cannot and you shouldn’t allow that to reflect negatively on yourself and feel the need to descend into accusations about “digs”.

Nonsense.

When FMF equated your question to one Becker might ask you hastily clarified it was "obliquely targeted at sonship."

So clearly it 'wasn't' intended for atheists and 'was' a dig at Sonship.

At least be honest about it.

@fmf said
Any person who serves or worships such a despicable creature is to [be] reviled or pitied .

I know what you mean but for me this exhortation goes a little too far. I don't care about what may or may not be the thoughtcrimes of others, preferring instead to look at the actions they take as a result of their beliefs.

Holding the belief that being burned alive for eter ...[text shortened]... for me.

Seeing as I have used the word tragic, maybe "they are to be pitied" is nearer the mark.

It’s interesting why some poster seem determined to avoid the point, the scenario. Almost as though indulging it will compromise their position somehow.

@caissad4 said
I answered your question .
Reread my answer .
Hint , I said no .

And it was the only sensible answer an atheist could make.

Only a theist could contemplate, even hypothetically, worshipping a God who burnt people alive for eternity or indeed believe such a God existed.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
And it was the only sensible answer an atheist could make.

Only a theist could contemplate, even hypothetically, worshipping a God who burnt people alive for eternity or indeed believe such a God existed.

Worshiping never comes into my scenario. Nor does liking, respecting, agreeing with nor any other jazz-handed counter-measured adjective you want to throw up.

But as I said before, if you don’t to, or can’t bring yourself to play out the scenario, that’s fine, you don’t have to keep telling us how you disapprove of eternal torture or keep accusing me of having a “dig” at sonship as a smokescreen for your non involvement.

@divegeester said
Worshiping never comes into my scenario. Nor does liking, respecting, agreeing with nor any other jazz-handed counter-measured adjective you want to throw up.

But as I said before, if you don’t to, or can’t bring yourself to play out the scenario, that’s fine, you don’t have to keep telling us how you disapprove of eternal torture or keep accusing me of having a “dig” at sonship as a smokescreen for your non involvement.

As FMF said:

This is not a question an atheist can answer. Pardon me, but it reminds me of a question dj2becker once asked me: [my paraphrasing...] "If you believed in God and knew that everything taught about God was true, what justification would you have for continuing to be an atheist?"

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As FMF said:

This is not a question an atheist can answer. Pardon me, but it reminds me of a question dj2becker once asked me: [my paraphrasing...] "If you believed in God and knew that everything taught about God was true, what justification would you have for continuing to be an atheist?"

You keep quoting FMF for some reason.

Have you read all of FMF’s posts in this thread, in particular the ones on the previous page in reply to Cassiad?

@divegeester said
You keep quoting FMF for some reason.

Have you read all of FMF’s posts in this thread, in particular the ones on the previous page in reply to Cassiad?

It was amusing how he shut you down with his first post.

Hard to recover from a Becker comparison.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It was amusing how he shut you down with his first post.

Hard to recover from a Becker comparison.

Jeez!
You are still hurting aren’t you, still upset. Try to accept that you’ve lost dozens of friends, some really good, potentially life long friends. Try to leave it behind instead of subtly bringing “onions” and your sleepless thin-skinned angst into every exchange.

I’d like to say that that is what is amusing, but it’s just a little sad to see someone who was bullied trying to “legitimately” target and bully others like VR; trying to be the online “nice guy” instead of the real life good guy.

Pitiful.

@divegeester said
Jeez!
You are still hurting aren’t you, still upset. Try to accept that you’ve lost dozens of friends, some really good, potentially life long friends. Try to leave it behind instead of subtly bringing “onions” and your sleepless thin-skinned angst into every exchange.

I’d like to say that that is what is amusing, but it’s just a little sad to see someone who was bul ...[text shortened]... y others like VR; trying to be the online “nice guy” instead of the real life good guy.

Pitiful.

I can honestly say I haven't lost a single friend over your combined nonsense.

I actually gained a few.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I can honestly say I haven't lost a single friend over your combined nonsense.

I actually gained a few.

Well that good to know and I’m honestly happy for you. To be fair no one asks about you, except Bill of course who sometimes wonders ‘what went wrong with that ****.’

Still, try to quell those negative thoughts, they just keep you up at night. And good luck with your new friends, let’s hope no one gets your name wrong at any time.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I actually gained a few.

Sure. Lol.
Sorry, although I’d be genuinely happy if had, I just don’t believe you and it’s funny that you are having to make it up.

@divegeester said
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive. What would you do?

Assuming that my belief in a torturer God meant that I also believed that threats of torture could turn non-believers into believers, perhaps I would participate in rounding up non-believers and

[1] first threaten them with torture in order to make them believe the same as what I believed, and, if that didn't work,

[2] I would torture them until they believed, and, if that didn't work,

[3] I would perhaps torture them to death as it wouldn't really matter and, given my belief in a torturer God, I might belief that it would act as a deterrent and/or motivation to other non-believers and people from sonship's "other worlds".

I might even hang them out, burning, on chains to display what I believed to be the "glory" of my torturer God.

@fmf said
Assuming that my belief in a torturer God meant that I also believed that threats of torture could turn non-believers into believers, perhaps I would participate in rounding up non-believers and

[1] first threaten them with torture in order to make them believe the same as what I believed, and, if that didn't work,

[2] I would torture them until they believed, and, if tha ...[text shortened]... n hang them out, burning, on chains to display what I believed to be the "glory" of my torturer God.

TL; DR version...

If the torturer God ideology is actually true ~ torture in flames for eternity for being a non-believer as opposed to it being a punishment for not adhering to a code for morally sound living ~ then I can see only a kind of grotesque moral bankruptcy.

@fmf said
TL; DR version...

If the torturer God ideology is actually true ~ torture in flames for eternity for being a non-believer as opposed to it being a punishment for not adhering to a code for morally sound living ~ then I can see only a kind of grotesque moral bankruptcy.

If we clean this scenario of a “god” and let’s make it a human, a human who lives on a mountain and has rarely if ever been seen.

This human has the power to burn alive for 100 years (let’s leave eternity out of it also) and other human who doesn’t believe in their mountaintop existence.

Person A knows mountain human exists but is alone in that belief while their family, friends and neighbours are all unbelievers.

What would be the more moral thing for person A to do:
1) spend their available time blogging on a website to a limited audience of detractors?
2) spend their available time finding a way to convince their loved ones and neighbours that mountain man exists?

It’s simply a matter of principle. Of course I am directly challenging those who claim that they believe this nonsense and proposing that actually their behaviour indicates that they don’t really believe it.