1. Joined
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    04 Mar '09 12:09
    😕

    http://www.youtubeislam.com/video/2173/Quran-Only-in-Arabic

    Do you people agree with this? Can the holy scriptures, be it in Hebrew,
    Arabic or otherwise, only be read and understood for real in the original
    language? If I spend time reading the entire King James bible, for
    instance, would I really know the bible, or a possibly false interpretation
    of it from the 47 who did the translating? I mean, I'm interested enough
    to go reading these things, but I'm not gonna learn an entirely new
    language just to "get the idea" proposed in any of these texts. I'm just
    not.

    🙄
  2. Joined
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    04 Mar '09 12:59
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    😕

    http://www.youtubeislam.com/video/2173/Quran-Only-in-Arabic

    Do you people agree with this? Can the holy scriptures, be it in Hebrew,
    Arabic or otherwise, only be read and understood for real in the original
    language? If I spend time reading the entire King James bible, for
    instance, would I really know the bible, or a possibly false interpretat ...[text shortened]... new
    language just to "get the idea" proposed in any of these texts. I'm just
    not.

    🙄
    Get yourself an English translation of the Bible and start reading and praying to God about some of the things you read.

    The Scriptures can be translated into other languages from the original.

    Is there a perfect translation? No. But there are many good translations. And the major things are repeated in many different ways throughout the Bible. If it was not clear in one section, chances are it will be clearer in another section.

    Minor translation problems are not big enough to effect your spiritual progress in any substantial way. God is wise and can make allowances for errors in translation on minor matters.

    Don't sit around waiting for the perfect translation of the Hebrew and Greek. Get a reputable one.

    My favorites are:

    The Recover Version

    J N Darby New Translation

    1901 American Standard

    I would not hesitate to give someone who had NO Bible at all:

    New American Standard

    New King James

    I do not care for the NIV but it is better than no Bible at all.

    God will guide you.
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    04 Mar '09 14:27
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    Can the holy scriptures, be it in Hebrew,
    Arabic or otherwise, only be read and understood for real in the original
    language?
    I doubt that any of them can be understood 'for real' at all. We simply don't have access to an author's original intentions, whether the work was committed to writing 3000 years ago or last week. Of course, as jaywill suggests, special assistance may perhaps be invoked. (Why not follow his advice? Give it a shot ... )

    Being aware that something is always lost in translation might motivate you to find out what has been lost; you could use a concordance to help you pick your way through the Bible; something similar must exist for the Koran, the Mahabharata, and so on. Although a Mahabharata concordance would be seriously big ...
  4. Joined
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    04 Mar '09 14:542 edits
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I doubt that any of them can be understood 'for real' at all. We simply don't have access to an author's original intentions, whether the work was committed to writing 3000 years ago or last week. Of course, as jaywill suggests, special assistance may perhaps be invoked. (Why not follow his advice? Give it a shot ... )

    Being aware that something is ...[text shortened]... n, the Mahabharata, and so on. Although a Mahabharata concordance would be seriously big ...
    re-thought.
  5. Account suspended
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    04 Mar '09 17:141 edit
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    😕

    http://www.youtubeislam.com/video/2173/Quran-Only-in-Arabic

    Do you people agree with this? Can the holy scriptures, be it in Hebrew,
    Arabic or otherwise, only be read and understood for real in the original
    language? If I spend time reading the entire King James bible, for
    instance, would I really know the bible, or a possibly false interpretat new
    language just to "get the idea" proposed in any of these texts. I'm just
    not.

    🙄
    if you truly want to understand the bible you will need not only a good translation, but also a Hebrew and Greek interlinear. the problem with translation is their lack of consistency, for example they translate a Hebrew word like sheol, as 'hell, as 'pit', 'grave' etc etc, not only that but they have taken great liberties, for example they have removed the divine name, the so called tetragrammeton (JHWH or YHWH) and replaced it with confusing titles like Lord, the ever lasting, the divine etc etc also an expository would be good to explain some of the background and meanings of the words, Vines expository of New testament words is a good one, but be careful he is a trinitarian, but that aside, hes fairly accurate! i wish you well - regards robbie.
  6. Cape Town
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    04 Mar '09 17:47
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Minor translation problems are not big enough to effect your spiritual progress in any substantial way. God is wise and can make allowances for errors in translation on minor matters.
    Odd then how many denominations there are that seem to have quite substantial differences in their understanding of the Bible. Whats your explanation? Did they not pray hard enough?
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    04 Mar '09 21:54
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Odd then how many denominations there are that seem to have quite substantial differences in their understanding of the Bible. Whats your explanation? Did they not pray hard enough?
    there is no need for irreverence Whitey my friend, the answers to the question is not only one of interpretation and ignorance, but also clinging doggedly to tradition and a refusal to examine beliefs which may be erroneous, and in many cases an individual seeks to establish his own thoughts and ideas which ultimately supersede and eventually invalidate the word of God.
  8. Break-twitching
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    05 Mar '09 04:521 edit
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    😕

    http://www.youtubeislam.com/video/2173/Quran-Only-in-Arabic

    Do you people agree with this? Can the holy scriptures, be it in Hebrew,
    Arabic or otherwise, only be read and understood for real in the original
    language? If I spend time reading the entire King James bible, for
    instance, would I really know the bible, or a possibly false interpretat new
    language just to "get the idea" proposed in any of these texts. I'm just
    not.

    🙄
    The International Version Study Bible will do just fine; however, the latest revision is changing the syntax which could allow someone to take a verse out of context. Why are they doing this? To make it hip for 21st-century "christian" progressives.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Mar '09 05:31
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    there is no need for irreverence Whitey my friend, the answers to the question is not only one of interpretation and ignorance, but also clinging doggedly to tradition and a refusal to examine beliefs which may be erroneous, and in many cases an individual seeks to establish his own thoughts and ideas which ultimately supersede and eventually invalidate the word of God.
    Perhaps this applies to the likes of you and jaywill. Who's to know?
  10. Account suspended
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    05 Mar '09 08:02
    Originally posted by FMF
    Perhaps this applies to the likes of you and jaywill. Who's to know?
    Lol, yeah like you would know! Please be a good fellow and post something with content and try to refrain from firing your rockets into cyber space, for you are reminiscent of Marvin the martian, intent to blow up the earth because it obstructs his view of Venus...the Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator, that earth creature has got it, delays delays!
  11. Cape Town
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    05 Mar '09 08:14
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    there is no need for irreverence Whitey my friend, the answers to the question is not only one of interpretation and ignorance, but also clinging doggedly to tradition and a refusal to examine beliefs which may be erroneous, and in many cases an individual seeks to establish his own thoughts and ideas which ultimately supersede and eventually invalidate the word of God.
    I did not intend any irreverence. I merely cannot see what Jaywill is arguing. If I understand him correctly he is saying that God in his wisdom made the Bible such that it would be understood reasonably well by all. This is clearly not the case. What am I missing?
  12. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    05 Mar '09 08:20
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I did not intend any irreverence. I merely cannot see what Jaywill is arguing. If I understand him correctly he is saying that God in his wisdom made the Bible such that it would be understood reasonably well by all. This is clearly not the case. What am I missing?
    I think he's saying that the Holy Spirit will guide your interpretation.
  13. Account suspended
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    05 Mar '09 08:28
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I did not intend any irreverence. I merely cannot see what Jaywill is arguing. If I understand him correctly he is saying that God in his wisdom made the Bible such that it would be understood reasonably well by all. This is clearly not the case. What am I missing?
    perhaps it was the tone Whitey my friend, but sorry if i have jumped to conclusions, anyhow, perhaps Jaywill meant that by virtue of its being the most widely printed, most widely translated book in the history of humanity, it may have something to do with it. if i am not mistaken it is either in whole or in part available to 95% of the population of the planet, which is what one would expect from an important message, although i cannot say for sure if this is what he meant.
  14. Joined
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    05 Mar '09 09:001 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I doubt that any of them can be understood 'for real' at all. We simply don't have access to an author's original intentions, whether the work was committed to writing 3000 years ago or last week. Of course, as jaywill suggests, special assistance may perhaps be invoked. (Why not follow his advice? Give it a shot ... )

    Being aware that something is ...[text shortened]... n, the Mahabharata, and so on. Although a Mahabharata concordance would be seriously big ...
    A concordance sound like a seriously good idea when reading these
    books.

    From what I understand, Arabic in the Qur'an is very precise, to the point
    where there's no room for misunderstanding. In the translation some
    of that clarity is lost, because several different words are often grouped
    into one, though in Arabic they have specific meanings and so they can't
    be used interchangeably like synonyms.

    I would love for someone who speak and understand Arabic to confirm
    this. I'm gonna stick with my English translation for now though, and just
    lookup what real Muslims have to say about the translations. Maybe I'll
    get some idea of what I'm missing, if I do.

    In any event, I enjoyed listening to this guy (Nouman Ali Khan) on the
    subject:

    Why and how to learn the Arabic spoken in the Qur'an

    Part 1: http://tinyurl.com/c5tlwv
    Part 2: http://tinyurl.com/bhtmjw
    Part 3: http://tinyurl.com/d59afe
    Part 4: http://tinyurl.com/bol5zj
    Part 5: http://tinyurl.com/au25or
    Part 6: http://tinyurl.com/cjwmtg

    ----

    As for the Mahabharata, I think I'll just save that humongous piece
    of work for further education down the road. 😵

    Though, this is an interesting preface that explain some of the issues
    that arise in translation and how they can be dealt with:
    http://tinyurl.com/al796d
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    05 Mar '09 11:42
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    As for the Mahabharata, I think I'll just save that humongous piece
    of work for further education down the road. 😵
    Don't worry, there's a film.
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