Ideals Collide as Vatican Rethinks Condom Ban

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The Catholic Church doesn't recognize marriages between two people of the same gender.

Like all other religions, the RC church has trouble recognising reality!

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Trust the NY Times to make a mountain of a molehill.

How many times has Ivanhoe posted some ultra-trivial commentary from some obscure Roman
Catholic newspaper regarding some third world country's priest favorite color? Those meaningless
posts have not been met with the same cynical response you gave this article, one which has a
great deal of relevance in the continent with an inordinate number of Roman Catholics: Africa.

This NYTimes article is balanced, making clear that the Pope has not made any decision except
to review its stance on the issue.

It is hardly a molehill. Let's pray it becomes a mountain.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
How many times has Ivanhoe posted some ultra-trivial commentary from some obscure Roman
Catholic newspaper regarding some third world country's priest favorite color? Those meaningless
posts have not been met with the same cynical response you gave this article, one which has a
great deal of relevance in the continent with an inordinate number of Roman ...[text shortened]... ance on the issue.

It is hardly a molehill. Let's pray it becomes a mountain.

Nemesio

What percentage of new HIV infections are caused by consentual sex between two married people one of whom is known to be infected already?

Originally posted by Nemesio
How many times has Ivanhoe posted some ultra-trivial commentary from some obscure Roman
Catholic newspaper regarding some third world country's priest favorite color? Those meaningless
posts have not been met with the same cynical response you gave this article, one which has a
great deal of relevance in the continent with an inordinate number of Roman ...[text shortened]... ance on the issue.

It is hardly a molehill. Let's pray it becomes a mountain.

Nemesio

The fear for Ivanhoe, LH and other blind believers is that it erodes the solid foundation of unquestioning certainty provided by their religion.

The RC has always taught that contraceptives are inherently wrong as if it is a directive from an omniscient creator, and therefore immutable.

Now they are changing this previously concrete law, thereby admitting fallibility and incompleteness of doctrine.
They were wrong for years about this 'certainty'; which other 'certainties' will be altered in the future? The seeds of doubt have been sown. Where will it all end?

Eventually, the whole rulebook may have to be discarded, and the bible thrown out as mumbo jumbo.

Originally posted by howardgee
The fear for Ivanhoe, LH and other blind believers is that it erodes the solid foundation of unquestioning certainty provided by their religion.

The RC has always taught that contraceptives are inherently wrong as if it is a directive from an omniscient creator, and therefore immutable.

Now they are changing this previously concrete law, thereby admi ...[text shortened]... ually, the whole rulebook may have to be discarded, and the bible thrown out as mumbo jumbo.

Oh grow up already. NOW who is making a mountain out of a molehill?

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
What percentage of new HIV infections are caused by consentual sex between two married people one of whom is known to be infected already?

In Africa? Not an insignificant number.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
In Africa? Not an insignificant number.

Nemesio

Numbers, please.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Numbers, please.

"In Africa, couples are at the highest risk for HIV infection and researchers estimate that between 60-70% of HIV transmission occurs within couples that are married or living together." (http://www.iavireport.org/vax/primers/vaxprimer19.asp)

The C in the much vaunted Ugandan ABC approach stands for Condom.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Numbers, please.

You get more like Ivanhoe every day. When faced with a situation
which is inconvenient for the absurd stances your faith entails (be it
the Inquisition, literal belief/figurative belief, condom use, or sex
scandals), you become immediately deaf and dumb.

If you don't read the newspaper about HIV in Africa (you know, dirty
rags like the NYTimes), then I'm not going to hold your hand and find
the information for you. It's been published at least a dozen times in
the past 3 years about the Church's adamant stance against condom
use in the face of HIV infections in Africa. If your head is that far
buried in the sand, then my citation isn't going to help you.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
"In Africa, couples are at the highest risk for HIV infection and researchers estimate that between 60-70% of HIV transmission occurs within couples that are married or living together." (http://www.iavireport.org/vax/primers/vaxprimer19.asp)

The C in the much vaunted Ugandan ABC approach stands for Condom.

I can't help myself.

Here are some better articles.

http://www.iavireport.org/Issues/0804/SerodiscordantCouples.asp
http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t040407.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/11/30/DI2005113001653.html

Especially read this report:
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/vallaeys/gender.html



Enjoy the edification, LH.

Nemesio

I wonder if anyone within the Church has yet grasped the irony involved in such decisions.

A body of individuals whose doctrine continually rejects the concept of evolution while that doctrine itself proceeds to evolve from one year to the next.

-JC

Originally posted by Churlant
I wonder if anyone within the Church has yet grasped the irony involved in such decisions.

A body of individuals whose doctrine continually rejects the concept of evolution while that doctrine itself proceeds to evolve from one year to the next.

-JC

The Roman Catholic Church does not reject evolution. In fact, it
embraces it.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
I can't help myself.

Here are some better articles.

http://www.iavireport.org/Issues/0804/SerodiscordantCouples.asp
http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t040407.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/11/30/DI2005113001653.html

Especially read this report:
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/vallaeys/gender.html



Enjoy the edification, LH.

Nemesio

Thanks for this. I didn't know it was that high.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Thanks for this. I didn't know it was that high.

Candidly, neither did I. I would have been more pissed about it for longer had I known.

Nemesio

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Numbers, please.

Your silence is deafening.

Nemesio