Originally posted by josephw
Justice.

That is merely a word defined as my question. It is not an answer.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is merely a word defined as my question. It is not an answer.

Can you clarify the question?

Originally posted by josephw
Can you clarify the question?

What makes up justice? What makes something just? What makes something fair or not fair?
Deepthought suggests that if you have good reason to believe a certain course of action is the correct one, then it is unfair to punish you for taking that course of action. Is this stance correct?

Originally posted by twhitehead
What makes up justice? What makes something just? What makes something fair or not fair?
Deepthought suggests that if you have good reason to believe a certain course of action is the correct one, then it is unfair to punish you for taking that course of action. Is this stance correct?

Not correct! That mentality leads to an endless cycle of dead end reasoning.

In order for justice to have meaning it needs an absolute standard of what's right and wrong.

Do you hear that? There is no justice if two or more opposing standards of right and wrong exists. Does that make sense to you?

Originally posted by twhitehead
What makes up justice? What makes something just? What makes something fair or not fair?
Deepthought suggests that if you have good reason to believe a certain course of action is the correct one, then it is unfair to punish you for taking that course of action. Is this stance correct?

My point was about free will rather than incomplete or false information. With human justice someone acting on incomplete or false information could expect that to be a mitigation - I assume that would be the case in the divine case - but would we be considered to have sufficient information?

Originally posted by DeepThought
My point was about free will rather than incomplete or false information. With human justice someone acting on incomplete or false information could expect that to be a mitigation - I assume that would be the case in the divine case - but would we be considered to have sufficient information?

Yes. According to God's Word man will be without excuse because all that exists is evidence for God's existence.

Originally posted by josephw
Do you hear that? There is no justice if two or more opposing standards of right and wrong exists. Does that make sense to you?

I understand what you are saying. I personally don't think any such absolute justice exists.

Originally posted by DeepThought
My point was about free will rather than incomplete or false information. With human justice someone acting on incomplete or false information could expect that to be a mitigation - I assume that would be the case in the divine case - but would we be considered to have sufficient information?

So how much information would make it 'fair'?
Information about what?
My point is that if the information available leaves the decision make with no reasonable reason to choose the wrong thing, then nobody would ever choose wrong. So if someone chooses wrong, it implies they were not privy to sufficient information: therefore punishment is never fair.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I understand what you are saying. I personally don't think any such absolute justice exists.

What you really mean is you're not certain that absolute justice exists.

If you knew for sure you would have an argument to support it instead of merely stating what you think.

Originally posted by josephw
What you really mean is you're not certain that absolute justice exists.

No, I meant I do not think absolute justice exists.

If you knew for sure you would have an argument to support it instead of merely stating what you think.
I could mount an argument, but it would be more effort than I am prepared to give to this thread. The topic of Justice is enormous. I recently completed an online university course on the topic and we only scratched the surface.

Originally posted by RJHinds
1. If God exists, why wouldn't He create what He wanted fully formed rather than let whatever would be evolve from nothing over billions or so years?

2. If God exists, why would God take 13.72 billion years to create a world when He could do it in 6 days?

3. If God exists, why would God make man in the image of God, rather than just let whatever evolve from a primordial pool.

(putting on my pretendo-christian hat on for this)

1 -i guess you would rather your children popped into existence as fully formed adults.

2 -why would he take 6 days if he could do it in 6 nano seconds.

3 -maybe every living thing is in the image of god.

Originally posted by josephw

Do you hear that? There is no justice if two or more opposing standards of right and wrong exists. Does that make sense to you?

Incorrect. 2 examples so that you might comprehend;
1.
Consider two children arguing.
Both believe they are right.
An adult proposes a just solution.

2.
An employer is locked in talks with a Trade Union.
Both believe their position is right.
Arbitration provides a just solution.

Now you could propose that while there is a person alive who does not find
the solutions "just" they cannot be truly just. But that leads down a maze of
semantics/cognition/philosophy that serves no purpose.

... but that is where you may wish to go? ....

Originally posted by stellspalfie
(putting on my pretendo-christian hat on for this)

1 -i guess you would rather your children popped into existence as fully formed adults.

2 -why would he take 6 days if he could do it in 6 nano seconds.

3 -maybe every living thing is in the image of god.

1. Children are born, not created.

2. The reason the creation was 6 days is to give humans an example of a work week.

3. I am in the image of God, animals and bugs are not.

Originally posted by RJHinds
1. Children are born, not created.

This is therefor evidence that God, as described by you in the OP, does not exist.

2. The reason the creation was 6 days is to give humans an example of a work week.
Maybe creation took 13 billion years to give all those scientists something to do.

3. I am in the image of God, animals and bugs are not.
But you apparently do not know why.

Originally posted by RJHinds
1. Children are born, not created.

2. The reason the creation was 6 days is to give humans an example of a work week.

3. I am in the image of God, animals and bugs are not.

1- did yourself and mrs hinds not create your children? did the stalk bring them?


2- aah right. so if i can get my work done in less than one day i should stretch it out, work slower so it will take 6 days...just like god.

3.would god rather have the image of...lets say a cheetah, perfectly built for its environment, majestic, beautiful and powerful, taking only what it needs, preserving the natural balance of it ecology......or a sweaty, fat, lump of meat who needs to drown themselves in air-con just to make it from their fridge to walmart.