1. Standard memberRemoved
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    15 Oct '05 20:43
    An interesting article on God proving Himself.

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=190
  2. Donationbbarr
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    15 Oct '05 20:46
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    An interesting article on God proving Himself.

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=190
    How is this interesting?
  3. Standard memberRemoved
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    15 Oct '05 21:37
    Originally posted by bbarr
    How is this interesting?
    I think you answered your own question....😉
  4. Donationbbarr
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    15 Oct '05 21:39
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I think you answered your own question....😉
    No, I'm asking you to identify the interesting parts of the article. What parts do you find interesting?
  5. Meddling with things
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    15 Oct '05 21:45
    Originally posted by bbarr
    No, I'm asking you to identify the interesting parts of the article. What parts do you find interesting?
    The only bit that impressed me was right at the start
    " God will prove Himself
    Date: Tuesday, January 13 @ 14:23:58 EST".

    I shall wait with baithed breath.
  6. Standard membertelerion
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    15 Oct '05 21:461 edit
    Originally posted by bbarr
    No, I'm asking you to identify the interesting parts of the article. What parts do you find interesting?
    This is a not-so-subtle example of the secret decoder ring.

    Basically here's the thinking:

    The Bible is convincing proof of God.
    If you read the Word of God and are not convinced that God is real, then you obviously never believed in God to begin with.

    🙄
  7. Donationbbarr
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    15 Oct '05 21:49
    Originally posted by telerion
    This is a not-so-subtle example of the secret decoder ring.

    Basically hears the thinking:

    The Bible is convincing proof of God.
    If you read the Word of God and are not convinced that God is real, then you obviously never believed in God to begin with.

    🙄
    Well, that's right. Understanding requires a leap of faith, or so they say. Better to say that leaps of faith lead to selective attention regarding evidence, and violations of abductive principles.
  8. Standard memberRemoved
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    15 Oct '05 21:55
    As the article states, it is not for the skeptic. I should have stated that on the thread title....sorry.
  9. Donationbbarr
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    15 Oct '05 21:59
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    As the article states, it is not for the skeptic. I should have stated that on the thread title....sorry.
    Being unconvinced in the face of insufficient evidence is tantamount to skepticism?
  10. Standard memberRemoved
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    16 Oct '05 01:50
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Being unconvinced in the face of insufficient evidence is tantamount to skepticism?
    Those are His rules, not mine. Take it or leave it. I took it.
    And found it to be true.
  11. Donationbbarr
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    16 Oct '05 02:13
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Those are His rules, not mine. Take it or leave it. I took it.
    And found it to be true.
    If God is my creator, then He is the one responsible for imbuing me with whatever modest intellect I posess. I assume He would not have granted me this way of knowing the world without expecting me to use it appropriately. So, I doubt that if He exists, the rules you identify are His rules. But whatever gets you through the night, checkbaiter...
  12. Standard memberRemoved
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    16 Oct '05 02:26
    Originally posted by bbarr
    If God is my creator, then He is the one responsible for imbuing me with whatever modest intellect I posess. I assume He would not have granted me this way of knowing the world without expecting me to use it appropriately. So, I doubt that if He exists, the rules you identify are His rules. But whatever gets you through the night, checkbaiter...
    Don't get me wrong here. I respect your decision. I am ever curious though. My dilemna is this. Why do people decide to believe?
    This is purely a rhetorical question by the way.
    I know very intelligent people that believe and visa versa. I have yet to understand why.
    Oh well, maybe some day.
    I hear some say that only certain ones are called, but I know this is not true, because the bible says God desires all men to be saved.
    You and Tel and others want evidence. I can understand that.
    From that stance, I would hope you can understand why I thought the article was interesting.
  13. Standard membertelerion
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    16 Oct '05 02:39
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Don't get me wrong here. I respect your decision. I am ever curious though. My dilemna is this. Why do people decide to believe?
    This is purely a rhetorical question by the way.
    I know very intelligent people that believe and visa versa. I have yet to understand why.
    Oh well, maybe some day.
    I hear some say that only certain ones are called, but ...[text shortened]... .
    From that stance, I would hope you can understand why I thought the article was interesting.
    I want evidence (or at the very least logical consistency) only because if I employ the same mental gymnastics/contortionism that these xian apologists do, I can believe almost anything.

    I want a god that I can feel good to believe in, one that doesn't need Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, and the Discovery Institute. Basically, if I'm gonna believe in a god, it's gonna be one that can defend itself.
  14. Subscriberwidget
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    16 Oct '05 02:39
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Those are His rules, not mine. Take it or leave it. I took it.
    And found it to be true.
    I looked under a cabbage and .... dirt and worms and slugs!

    I guess we all suffer different hallucinatory visions of reality.

    Maybe it all depends of what you're looking for - what you find, I mean and what is true about it 😉
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    16 Oct '05 03:13
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Those are His rules, not mine. Take it or leave it. I took it.
    And found it to be true.
    if those are the rules, then i will leave it. given the lack of evidence, i don't see how my faith could ever be "sincere" anyway. how can one commit his intellect to beliefs that he perceives to be completely arbitrary? it would be the height of insincerity, like trying to feign love.

    religion offers "answers" to the questions surrounding the seeming absurdity of life. the only thing i can see that many of these answers have going for them is the lack of solid proof against them -- which is to say, nothing at all. FYI, i have also yet to disprove the notion that there is a family of invisible elves that live in my left sneaker.

    "At a certain point on his path the absurd man is tempted. History is not lacking in either religion or prophets, even without gods. He is asked to leap. All he can reply is that he doesn't fully understand, that it is not obvious....He is assured that this is the sin of pride....An attempt is made to get him to admit his guilt. He feels innocent. To tell the truth, that is all he feels -- his irreparable innocence....To a man devoid of blinders, there is no finer sight than that of the intelligence at grips with a reality that transcends it....To impoverish that reality whose inhumanity constitutes man's majesty is tantamount to impoverishing him himself. I understand then why the doctrines that explain everything to me also debilitate me at the same time. They relieve me of the weight of my own life, and yet I must carry it alone."

    --Albert Camus
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