If he knows what we will do whats the point.

Since god knows(and has chosen) exactly where we will end up why dosent he skip it all and just put is in heaven or hell straght away.

Are you saying free will is an illusion?

Yes. God knows exactly what we do. If he didant he would not be all powerful.

Originally posted by Brother Edwin
Yes. God knows exactly what we do. If he didant he would not be omipinant.

"Omipinant"? WTF?

Originally posted by Moldy Crow
"Omipinant"? WTF?

Omni-pin-ant: All the small things.

Originally posted by Brother Edwin
Yes. God knows exactly what we do. If he didant he would not be all powerful.

CS Lewis's answer to this one was to realise that God doesn't 'foresee' what we are going to do in the future it's just that he is already seeing what you are going to do tomorrow. You are still free to do what you want tomorrow but the only reason God knows what you are doing tomorrow is because he is already there watching you do it. God experiences your life as one big 'now' . What you did yesterday , are doing now , and will do tomorrow are all experienced as 'now' for him. So in some sense he has no idea what you will do tomorrow until you do it but in another sense he does know (not because it is pre-determined) because he can simply watch you doing it.

If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it, from his sempiternal perspective. It's just that we haven't.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it, from his sempiternal perspective. Isn't just that we haven't.

If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it...

Why?

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it...

Why?[/b]

If God is outside time, whatever that means, then whatever has been, is, or will be, is all the same from His perspective. So, it's not as if he's waiting until we get to heaven or hell. Only we have to wait.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
If God is outside time, whatever that means, then whatever has been, is, or will be, is all the same from His perspective. So, it's not as if he's waiting until we get to heaven or hell. Only we have to wait.

Ah. Perhaps we have different definitions for "skipped".

Edit: I thought you meant it as in: "abscond".

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it, from his sempiternal perspective. It's just that we haven't.

Other than the sun, are the stars still there?

Originally posted by knightmeister
CS Lewis's answer to this one was to realise that God doesn't 'foresee' what we are going to do in the future it's just that he is already seeing what you are going to do tomorrow. You are still free to do what you want tomorrow but the only reason God knows what you are doing tomorrow is because he is already there watching you do it. God experiences ...[text shortened]... does know (not because it is pre-determined) because he can simply watch you doing it.

Which book did Lewis write this, or was it in a book? I do not recall
that, but like the perspective.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Which book did Lewis write this, or was it in a book? I do not recall
that, but like the perspective.
Kelly

It was either "Mere Christianity" or "Problem of Pain". I think the latter.

Originally posted by Brother Edwin
Since god knows(and has chosen) exactly where we will end up why dosent he skip it all and just put is in heaven or hell straght away.

Its a unpurposeful question as god only exists in our narratives as does father christmas for children

Originally posted by knightmeister
CS Lewis's answer to this one was to realise that God doesn't 'foresee' what we are going to do in the future it's just that he is already seeing what you are going to do tomorrow. You are still free to do what you want tomorrow but the only reason God knows what you are doing tomorrow is because he is already there watching you do it. God experiences ...[text shortened]... does know (not because it is pre-determined) because he can simply watch you doing it.

Let's see. Lewis' mental idol created the universe without knowing for certain whether it would fall or not (free will came from somewhere else). He was certain, however, that it could fall because he designed it with that possiblity.

So he gets bored twiddling his useless opposable thumbs in the Void and decides to role the proverbial dice. He chooses to gamble, to create. And in the very instant when he actualizes the universe, he sees everything, every bad choices, every needless suffering, every precious soul damned to unending torture. Suddenly, he realizes the monumental significance of what has just occurred: a perfect god made his first mistake.

Thus, if we humor Tommy Cochrane . . . I mean C.S. Lewis, God changes from infinitely cruel to infinitely negligent.