1. The moral highground
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    10 Apr '06 22:54
    Since god knows(and has chosen) exactly where we will end up why dosent he skip it all and just put is in heaven or hell straght away.
  2. Joined
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    10 Apr '06 23:22
    Are you saying free will is an illusion?
  3. The moral highground
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    10 Apr '06 23:232 edits
    Yes. God knows exactly what we do. If he didant he would not be all powerful.
  4. Standard memberMoldy Crow
    Your Eminence
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    10 Apr '06 23:31
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Yes. God knows exactly what we do. If he didant he would not be omipinant.
    "Omipinant"? WTF?
  5. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    10 Apr '06 23:371 edit
    Originally posted by Moldy Crow
    "Omipinant"? WTF?
    Omni-pin-ant: All the small things.
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
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    19 Apr '06 19:16
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Yes. God knows exactly what we do. If he didant he would not be all powerful.
    CS Lewis's answer to this one was to realise that God doesn't 'foresee' what we are going to do in the future it's just that he is already seeing what you are going to do tomorrow. You are still free to do what you want tomorrow but the only reason God knows what you are doing tomorrow is because he is already there watching you do it. God experiences your life as one big 'now' . What you did yesterday , are doing now , and will do tomorrow are all experienced as 'now' for him. So in some sense he has no idea what you will do tomorrow until you do it but in another sense he does know (not because it is pre-determined) because he can simply watch you doing it.
  7. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    19 Apr '06 19:321 edit
    If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it, from his sempiternal perspective. It's just that we haven't.
  8. Standard memberHalitose
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    19 Apr '06 19:36
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it, from his sempiternal perspective. Isn't just that we haven't.
    If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it...

    Why?
  9. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    19 Apr '06 19:531 edit
    Originally posted by Halitose
    [b]If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it...

    Why?[/b]
    If God is outside time, whatever that means, then whatever has been, is, or will be, is all the same from His perspective. So, it's not as if he's waiting until we get to heaven or hell. Only we have to wait.
  10. Standard memberHalitose
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    19 Apr '06 20:001 edit
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    If God is outside time, whatever that means, then whatever has been, is, or will be, is all the same from His perspective. So, it's not as if he's waiting until we get to heaven or hell. Only we have to wait.
    Ah. Perhaps we have different definitions for "skipped".

    Edit: I thought you meant it as in: "abscond".
  11. Unknown Territories
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    19 Apr '06 20:08
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    If knightmeister is correct, then God already has skipped it, from his sempiternal perspective. It's just that we haven't.
    Other than the sun, are the stars still there?
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    21 Apr '06 14:46
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    CS Lewis's answer to this one was to realise that God doesn't 'foresee' what we are going to do in the future it's just that he is already seeing what you are going to do tomorrow. You are still free to do what you want tomorrow but the only reason God knows what you are doing tomorrow is because he is already there watching you do it. God experiences ...[text shortened]... does know (not because it is pre-determined) because he can simply watch you doing it.
    Which book did Lewis write this, or was it in a book? I do not recall
    that, but like the perspective.
    Kelly
  13. Standard memberHalitose
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    23 Apr '06 16:14
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Which book did Lewis write this, or was it in a book? I do not recall
    that, but like the perspective.
    Kelly
    It was either "Mere Christianity" or "Problem of Pain". I think the latter.
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    23 Apr '06 16:18
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Since god knows(and has chosen) exactly where we will end up why dosent he skip it all and just put is in heaven or hell straght away.
    Its a unpurposeful question as god only exists in our narratives as does father christmas for children
  15. Standard membertelerion
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    23 Apr '06 18:01
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    CS Lewis's answer to this one was to realise that God doesn't 'foresee' what we are going to do in the future it's just that he is already seeing what you are going to do tomorrow. You are still free to do what you want tomorrow but the only reason God knows what you are doing tomorrow is because he is already there watching you do it. God experiences ...[text shortened]... does know (not because it is pre-determined) because he can simply watch you doing it.
    Let's see. Lewis' mental idol created the universe without knowing for certain whether it would fall or not (free will came from somewhere else). He was certain, however, that it could fall because he designed it with that possiblity.

    So he gets bored twiddling his useless opposable thumbs in the Void and decides to role the proverbial dice. He chooses to gamble, to create. And in the very instant when he actualizes the universe, he sees everything, every bad choices, every needless suffering, every precious soul damned to unending torture. Suddenly, he realizes the monumental significance of what has just occurred: a perfect god made his first mistake.

    Thus, if we humor Tommy Cochrane . . . I mean C.S. Lewis, God changes from infinitely cruel to infinitely negligent.

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