1. Joined
    06 Jan '06
    Moves
    1158
    12 Jan '06 04:32
    this brings up the important subject without evil can there be good?
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    12 Jan '06 04:35
    Originally posted by powder005
    this brings up the important subject without evil can there be good?
    Why not?
  3. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    12 Jan '06 04:46
    Originally posted by powder005
    this brings up the important subject without evil can there be good?
    Can there be white without black?
    Can there be cold without hot?
    Can there be darkness without light?

    Before God created anything -- when it was just Him -- was there evil?

    Nemesio
  4. Joined
    21 Oct '04
    Moves
    17038
    12 Jan '06 05:00
    I look at it this way,

    There is no such thing as "cold", its just a absence of heat,

    There is no such thing as "darkness" Its a absence of light

    Therefore, Evil is an absence of good?
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    12 Jan '06 05:091 edit
    Originally posted by flyUnity
    I look at it this way,

    There is no such thing as "cold", its just a absence of heat,

    There is no such thing as "darkness" Its a absence of light

    Therefore, Evil is an absence of good?
    By the same logic, "good" is just the absence of "evil".
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    12 Jan '06 05:147 edits
    Originally posted by powder005
    this brings up the important subject without evil can there be good?
    The view that good cannot exist in the absence of evil entails that good is relative and not absolute.

    Suppose there has always been justice in some universe. Is this good, or does an injustive have to occur in that universe to confer goodness upon the justice? Would you prefer to live in a completely just universe whose goodness would never be conferred by an evil injustice, or in a universe in which justice's goodness is repeatedly conferred by the presence of evil injustice? I would prefer to live in the former - but I don't hold the view that goodness requires the existence of evil, so I have no obstacle to finding that that is the better universe.

    Is there any good in heaven?
    Is there any evil in heaven?

    Nemesio presents the best dilemma: under the proposed view, God is either not good, or an evil counterpart existed with him before the creation of our world. Further, it entails that God is only good in a relative sense, if he is good at all.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y8wgt7a5
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    12 Jan '06 05:49
    Originally posted by powder005
    this brings up the important subject without evil can there be good?
    That depends on one's definition of "good".
  8. Joined
    11 Jan '06
    Moves
    469
    19 Jan '06 14:04
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    By the same logic, "good" is just the absence of "evil".
    Therefore a glass of water is simply the absence of an empty glass?
    The logic does not exactly work both ways. It is the issue of a substance and the lack of substance.

    Of course, in the case of good and evil the question would be which of these is the substance and which is simply the lack of substance. Is this what you meant?
  9. Joined
    12 Jun '05
    Moves
    14671
    19 Jan '06 14:40
    The analogy with heat, light, etc., is misleading.

    Moral goodness is a quality of a person or act. It is probably fair to say it cannot exist without at least the possibility that someone will choose to act in a way that is not good.

    That could be a morally neutral act or an evil act.

    Moral goodness in no way requires the "existence of evil".
  10. DonationPawnokeyhole
    Krackpot Kibitzer
    Right behind you...
    Joined
    27 Apr '02
    Moves
    16879
    19 Jan '06 22:28
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    The view that good cannot exist in the absence of evil entails that good is relative and not absolute.

    Suppose there has always been justice in some universe. Is this good, or does an injustive have to occur in that universe to confer goodness upon the justice? Would you prefer to live in a completely just universe whose goodness would never be ...[text shortened]... r world. Further, it entails that God is only good in a relative sense, if he is good at all.
    I share the view that good is not merely relative. I don't need to know what starvation is to enjoy a Goan pompret Rechado.

    But is good a little bit relative? In particular, is what is good made better by the creation of evil? Could that be a premise of a viable theodicy?
  11. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    20 Jan '06 01:22
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    By the same logic, "good" is just the absence of "evil".
    No. Light is measurable using Newtons prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. Darkness we cannot study, therefore, darkness does not exist. It is only a term to describe the absence of light. Likewise, heat transmits energy and therefore can be studied. Coldness in reality does not exist and is only a term to denote an absence of heat. In fact, absolute zero is the total absence of heat and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at such a temperature. Goodness and evil are thus comparible. Goodness exists as where evil does not. The term evil is used to denote the absence of God's love in ones heart.
  12. Forgotten
    Joined
    15 Sep '04
    Moves
    4459
    20 Jan '06 02:18
    if there is no evil then how do know good?

    When it comes up and bites you on the hindside.
  13. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    20 Jan '06 03:43
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    if there is no evil then how do know good?

    When it comes up and bites you on the hindside.
    As I said before, evil is a term to describe the absence of good. It is comparible to saying that you are getting cold even though coldness does not exist. Nevertheless, you know when you are getting cold. God created heat and light. He did not create darkness and cold or evil. Therefore those items do not exist. These terms simply denote the absence of what is present.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52612
    20 Jan '06 03:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    As I said before, evil is a term to describe the absence of good. It is comparible to saying that you are getting cold even though coldness does not exist. Nevertheless, you know when you are getting cold. God created heat and light. He did not create darkness and cold or evil. Therefore those items do not exist. These terms simply denote the absence of what is present.
    But just neutrality can be considered evil if the world was filled with
    good. Its like a voltage on a wire. If good = a large postitive
    voltage, and evil= a large negative voltage, then anything in the
    middle would be considered the opposite, from the evil viewpoint,
    neutrality is good and from the good viewpoint, neutrality is evil.
    So therefore there can be gradients of good where somewhat less
    good can be also considered evil. Like if a hungry man is given
    enough food to avoid starvation by one person but another person
    gives him enough food to make him healthy, in the absence of
    real evil, wouldn't the first person be considered evil?
  15. Standard memberwindmill
    your king.
    Account suspended
    Joined
    13 Nov '03
    Moves
    20532
    20 Jan '06 04:19
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    But just neutrality can be considered evil if the world was filled with
    good. Its like a voltage on a wire. If good = a large postitive
    voltage, and evil= a large negative voltage, then anything in the
    middle would be considered the opposite, from the evil viewpoint,
    neutrality is good and from the good viewpoint, neutrality is evil.
    So therefore there ...[text shortened]... o make him healthy, in the absence of
    real evil, wouldn't the first person be considered evil?
    the largest voltage would cause the neutral to tend towards the opposite....if predominantly good...those neutral would tend towards bad.vice-versa.
Back to Top