1. Joined
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    11 Dec '05 10:37
    Don't worry, though. I won't use the information collected in any public files (even though I do know your real names and addresses). I'll simply collect the results in my own cabinets for future study and reference.

    Imagine, if you can, that you have not existed until the very moment you read this. None of the things you think you "remember" or "know" about are real. There is no history. Time is merely an illusion. All your memories are there because you've been programmed with them (for lack of a better analogy).

    (You may think that this idea - that you really haven't existed until this very moment - are old philosophy, but remember, you've only been programmed to think that.)

    There is a higher purpose to programming you this way. There are forces out there, not directly linked to you, that are waiging a war of truth and false. On one side there are those who believe everything is true, and on the other side are those who believe that everything is false. Then there are those who just don't know what to believe.

    We call them the truthers, the falsers and the uncertainters.

    To not have to write such a silly word (uncertainters) over and over, it is the goal of the truthers and the falsers to recruit as many uncertainters to their camp as possible.

    Now, the reason for this whole programmatic experiment that I've started is to find out exactly who is right; the truthers or the falsers. I (as you might have guessed) is still an uncertainter. You all hold little pieces of the total information through your programming. Some of what you "know", are true, and some of it is false. This is because I've inserted the words from the truthers and the falsers respectively into your brains. However, you will believe it's all the truth because you have "experianced" it, so you "know" that everything you experience and remember are in fact true. I'm telling you, it's not. A lot of what you believe in and hold sacred are actually false, in it's own logic, because it comes from the falsers.

    Now, if you know nothing and nothing that you've read, heard or experienced is the actual truth but the truth as truthers see it and the truth as the falsers see it, how will you be able to get to the real truth? If there really is one. Which I don't know; the very purpose of writing this program with you in it. Is truth just an arbitrarily expression that can be different under different circumstances? Or, is there in fact a single truth to all existence? Perhaps nothing actually exist, so then everything would be false.

    Could it be that there is one truth, and that you all hold a small piece of it? Could it be that your built-in ambitions and desires to be better than everyone else (an unfortunate slip-through when I programmed you), is the actual reason you won't accept the truth from anyone else? (Unless it's someone that is not your equal but in fact a supernatural being responsible for all of creation as you know it; Me.) Could your ambition and desires keep you from recognizing the falshood in yourself? Finally, why are we always so keen on seeing the truth and not the falsehood?

    I have programmed you in my image, so I'm just as confused as you are. However, I have given you something that I don't have. I won't tell you what, but it should help me realize my own stance in the matter. I hope.
  2. Standard memberRemoved
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    11 Dec '05 13:33
    Originally posted by stocken
    Don't worry, though. I won't use the information collected in any public files (even though I do know your real names and addresses). I'll simply collect the results in my own cabinets for future study and reference.

    Imagine, if you can, that you have not existed until the very moment you read this. None of the things you think you "remember" ...[text shortened]... have. I won't tell you what, but it should help me realize my own stance in the matter. I hope.
    Hold on pal...I'm going to call Neo to deal with you....and Morpheus.
  3. Standard memberDavid C
    Flamenco Sketches
    Spain, in spirit
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    11 Dec '05 14:22
    Originally posted by stocken
    Perhaps nothing actually exist, so then everything would be false.
    Unfortunately, it would then be 'true' that nothing actually existed.
  4. Forgotten
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    11 Dec '05 15:42
    Originally posted by stocken
    Don't worry, though. I won't use the information collected in any public files (even though I do know your real names and addresses). I'll simply collect the results in my own cabinets for future study and reference.

    Imagine, if you can, that you have not existed until the very moment you read this. None of the things you think you "remember" ...[text shortened]... have. I won't tell you what, but it should help me realize my own stance in the matter. I hope.
    LSD is indeed a strong drug dude
    just maintain and eventually you will come down
    i recommend till then drink a beer or smoke a doobie
    put on some metallica and chill for a while
  5. Florida
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    11 Dec '05 20:06
    Originally posted by stocken
    Don't worry, though. I won't use the information collected in any public files (even though I do know your real names and addresses). I'll simply collect the results in my own cabinets for future study and reference.

    Imagine, if you can, that you have not existed until the very moment you read this. None of the things you think you "remember" ...[text shortened]... have. I won't tell you what, but it should help me realize my own stance in the matter. I hope.
    it seems to me that you are talking about believers in one truth and believers that say there is no one truth.also that there are seekers.is this correct?
  6. Joined
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    11 Dec '05 20:23
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Hold on pal...I'm going to call Neo to deal with you....and Morpheus.
    You only know about them because I programmed you with that information. How do you feel about that?
  7. Joined
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    11 Dec '05 20:26
    Originally posted by David C
    Unfortunately, it would then be 'true' that nothing actually existed.
    Yes. Nothing ever existed, and nothing ever will...
  8. Joined
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    11 Dec '05 20:28
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    LSD is indeed a strong drug dude
    just maintain and eventually you will come down
    i recommend till then drink a beer or smoke a doobie
    put on some metallica and chill for a while
    I'm a real kidder for programming you, aren't I? I will hereby take credit for anything amusing you say...
  9. Joined
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    11 Dec '05 21:12
    Originally posted by daveed
    it seems to me that you are talking about believers in one truth and believers that say there is no one truth.also that there are seekers.is this correct?
    Perhaps.

    Here's a few questions: Does everyone of us - every single living thing in the universe - hold a part of the answer to our existence? Are we even meant to exist?

    There are those who would proclaim a definite yes to the last question, and those who would be certain that the answer is no. From where do we get this self-relience; to think we know anything at all about such things?

    If we can communicate without limiting our thoughts to that which has already been spoken - that which is part of history and our past experiences - maybe the veil that has been pulled over our eyes (yes, I have seen matrix) will lift and reveal the truth in all its horror; that there's absolutely no reason for our existence and that indeed we have evolved beyond our own capacity. Or maybe there really is a meaning to all of this and we're still evolving to become the beings that we're supposed to be. In either case, the answers elude us at the moment, but maybe together, we can shed some interesting light on the problem at hand.

    I want to experiment on you, by trying to get you to think beyond your previous borders of realization. Especially those in these forums that seem really stuck in one place. Those who seem to be so certain that all the answers they need can be found in old texts written by great thinkers in ancient history. I would like to see if they can expand their thinking to be as miserable as myself. Because truly, carrying around all these questions are both a curse and a blessing, but mostly a source of confusion and dispair.

    I'm talking about believers, non-believers and those who just don't know. Who are you?
  10. R.I.P.
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    12 Dec '05 00:03
    Originally posted by stocken
    Perhaps.

    Here's a few questions: Does everyone of us - every single living thing in the universe - hold a part of the answer to our existence? Are we even meant to exist?

    There are those who would proclaim a definite yes to the last question, and those who would be certain that the answer is no. From where do we get this self-relience; to think we kn ...[text shortened]... air.

    I'm talking about believers, non-believers and those who just don't know. Who are you?
    Just suspend judgement on the question until you have enough information so that you can answer it truthfully.
  11. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
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    12 Dec '05 04:542 edits
    Originally posted by stocken
    Perhaps.

    Here's a few questions: Does everyone of us - every single living thing in the universe - hold a part of the answer to our existence? Are we even meant to exist?

    There are those who would proclaim a definite yes to the last question, and those who would be certain that the answer is no. From where do we get this self-relience; to think we kn ...[text shortened]... air.

    I'm talking about believers, non-believers and those who just don't know. Who are you?
    Because truly, carrying around all these questions are both a curse and a blessing, but mostly a source of confusion and despair.

    Ah, the existential angst! Although I’m learning to see “carrying around all these questions” as more of a blessing, and losing some of the despair (if not the confusion). Perhaps a bit of Nietzsche’s amor fati. In any event, I don’t see how to not keep the questions alive and kicking without acting in “bad faith.” Every time I think I have a “final” answer, I also remember Nietzsche’s dictum about not simply having the courage of one’s convictions, but the courage to mount an attack on one’s own convictions.

    In either case, the answers elude us at the moment, but maybe together, we can shed some interesting light on the problem at hand.

    I must have Nietzsche on the brain tonight, but this whole line of thought reminds me of his “perspectivism.” Every viewpoint is limited by its own perspective; the way to learn more is to adopt as many perspectives as possible, even if that means wrenching your world-view (or at least to engage the perspective of others, which seems to be part of your point).

    I’m seriously enjoying this, stocken, and I’ll keep following it. Well done.
  12. Standard memberUmbrageOfSnow
    All Bark, No Bite
    Playing percussion
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    12 Dec '05 04:58
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    LSD is indeed a strong drug dude
    just maintain and eventually you will come down
    i recommend till then drink a beer or smoke a doobie
    put on some metallica and chill for a while
    LSD, alcohol, and pot, possibly the only conditions under which you might find Metallica enjoyable, or at least not worth getting up to turn off.
  13. Standard memberOmnislash
    Digital Blasphemy
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    12 Dec '05 07:07
    Originally posted by stocken
    Don't worry, though. I won't use the information collected in any public files (even though I do know your real names and addresses). I'll simply collect the results in my own cabinets for future study and reference.

    Imagine, if you can, that you have not existed until the very moment you read this. None of the things you think you "remember" ...[text shortened]... have. I won't tell you what, but it should help me realize my own stance in the matter. I hope.
    Ok, if I assume the role you have presented in your statement:

    I must be an 'uncertainter'. I can not rely upon my knowledge and experience, thusly whatever conjecture I make will hold an unknown possibility of error. I hold no capacity to understand myself or the universe around me beyond my observations and experiences, thusly I can not claim anything to be true at all. To the converse, I am likewise impotent to discern falsehood. The only thing I know is that I can not know anything for certain.

    However, I may choose to take positions anyway. I may suspend my doubt of my perception and choose to accept or deny based upon my knowledge, experience, desire, and ambition. All such acceptance or denial would be fallible, but I may choose this none the less. Perhaps because I desire to know, though I can not. Regardless, it is inherant in my nature to question and make conjecture, thusly it is highly probable I shall take position regardless of its sagacity.

    Best Regards,

    Omnislash
  14. Joined
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    12 Dec '05 09:24
    Originally posted by Jay Peatea
    Just suspend judgement on the question until you have enough information so that you can answer it truthfully.
    But the purpose of this program is to find out enough to answer truthfully, see?..
  15. Joined
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    12 Dec '05 09:38
    Originally posted by vistesd
    [b]Because truly, carrying around all these questions are both a curse and a blessing, but mostly a source of confusion and despair.

    Ah, the existential angst! Although I’m learning to see “carrying around all these questions” as more of a blessing, and losing some of the despair (if not the confusion). Perhaps a bit of Nietzsche’s amor fati. ...[text shortened]... your point).

    I’m seriously enjoying this, stocken, and I’ll keep following it. Well done.[/b]
    Nietzsche makes for very interesting reading, I'd admit. But if I did well in my original post, you should spot a little bit of Hegel too, I think. That everything is defined by its own opposite, the negations. Good-bad; true-false. Nietzche, of course, disagreed with Hegel on many accounts, still I find both to be very exciting philosophers.

    The point, as you say, is partially to engage you to think in terms that you're not used to. To try and get those willing enough to explore ideas that they automatically consider to be false. If something is inheritantly false (or seem to be) we should be able to define what is true. Should we not? But also, we may - to our astonishment - realize that what initially seem to be false, is actually true; partially or complete.

    I'm glad you enjoy the thread, and likewise I enjoy your intellect. Hope to read more of you.
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