I'll experiment on you, OK?

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
LSD, alcohol, and pot, possibly the only conditions under which you might find Metallica enjoyable, or at least not worth getting up to turn off.

hmmm, I like Metallica, and despite my floosy thinking, I never use drugs before going: Saaaanaaatarium... do, do ,do-do... Leave me be...

(uhm, "do, do, do-do" would be a heavy guitar riff... )

Originally posted by Omnislash
Ok, if I assume the role you have presented in your statement:

I must be an 'uncertainter'. I can not rely upon my knowledge and experience, thusly whatever conjecture I make will hold an unknown possibility of error. I hold no capacity to understand myself or the universe around me beyond my observations and experiences, thusly I can not claim anythi ...[text shortened]... highly probable I shall take position regardless of its sagacity.

Best Regards,

Omnislash

Very well written. The mindset you expose is that of the truly wise (in my opinion). Sokrates, I believe, said something like: "The more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know anything". (I translated from the swedish translation which might not be the best thing to do, eh?)

Anyway, I agree that it would seem impossible to discern any truth or falsehood, without at least a partial level of opposition in the conclusions' own logic. Perhaps because it's impossible for humans to perceive those things we need not perceive for our direct survival (vistesd, if you're reading this, that would be the Nietzche mindset, right?).

As you say, you may still choose to take side based on the insight you gain through your limited perceptions of reality. In fact, that's what we all do by nature. It's really, really hard not to. I do it all the time. I constantly have to remind myself that I don't know anything for sure, and that I should get back to real thinking.

I wish you the best too, Omnislash,

Stocken

Is the whole purpose of existence to think? Is that why we are constantly challenged by more seemingly incompatible facts of nature?

Perhaps the confusion we experience is a natural barrier to protect us from wasting our lifes thinking about it, instead of just living it. Most people tire with all the uncertainty and eventually accept a truth (true or not) to get on with their lives (to love and procreate with love, hopefully).

So, if that's the truth - then for those people the barrier does seem to work, but for me, it's a never-ending source of frustration.

Gaaaaaahhhh!...

Originally posted by stocken
Is the whole purpose of existence to think? Is that why we are constantly challenged by more seemingly incompatible facts of nature?

Perhaps the confusion we experience is a natural barrier to protect us from wasting our lifes thinking about it, instead of just living it. Most people tire with all the uncertainty and eventually accept a truth (true or not ...[text shortened]... er does seem to work, but for me, it's a never-ending source of frustration.

Gaaaaaahhhh!...

Like all creatures, we are limited by our perception. To the worms in the earth, that patch of dirt is the cosmos. One can rationalize the acceptance or denial of a great many aspects of existence. However, I think it is not so bad for us to accept certain things as they are in line with our experiences and observations with the understanding that our capacity is limited. That, my friend, is the base of belief. 😉

Originally posted by stocken
hmmm, I like Metallica, and despite my floosy thinking, I never use drugs before going: Saaaanaaatarium... do, do ,do-do... Leave me be...

(uhm, "do, do, do-do" would be a heavy guitar riff... )

In the correct order.One...Master of puppets...Sanatarium.Followed by anything from classical to death metal depending on the grenades,doctors and ensuing insanity.lol.

Originally posted by windmill
In the correct order.One...Master of puppets...Sanatarium.Followed by anything from classical to death metal depending on the grenades,doctors and ensuing insanity.lol.

One, Master of puppets and sanatarium.

God, Various religious orders and the world itself.

So close, no matter how far...

Originally posted by stocken
One, Master of puppets and sanatarium.

God, Various religious orders and the world itself.

So close, no matter how far...

Help me God....Nah....Good Luck!

Originally posted by Omnislash
Like all creatures, we are limited by our perception. To the worms in the earth, that patch of dirt is the cosmos. One can rationalize the acceptance or denial of a great many aspects of existence. However, I think it is not so bad for us to accept certain things as they are in line with our experiences and observations with the understanding that our capacity is limited. That, my friend, is the base of belief. 😉

Another base pillar of belief is, ignorance of that which does not fit in with the belief system itself. I'm not ready to do that, just yet. I need to keep questioning, even if it does make me nacuious from time to time.

Who knows what a worm thinks as he hits the rock: "What is that? What's its purpose? Why am I here, and how did it all happen? Can I brake through it?" Regardless of wether that's his/her thoughts or not, the worm will still be and behave as a worm. Regardless of wether or not the worm can find any answers to his/her questions, (s)he will still act a worm.

Yes, to a certain degree one has to accept some of what one "knows" to be true. If for no other reason than to stay insane. And sanity, as we all know, is the biggest diversion of all.

Originally posted by windmill
Help me God....Nah....Good Luck!

Thank you 🙂

I can tell that was a sincere good luck wish from you, and I do, so much appreciate that.

Originally posted by stocken
Another base pillar of belief is, ignorance of that which does not fit in with the belief system itself. I'm not ready to do that, just yet. I need to keep questioning, even if it does make me nacuious from time to time.

Who knows what a worm thinks as he hits the rock: "What is that? What's its purpose? Why am I here, and how did it all happen? Can I ...[text shortened]... o other reason than to stay insane. And sanity, as we all know, is the biggest diversion of all.

I disagree with your notion that one must be ignorant of that which does not fit in with the belief system, but I am highly supportive of your desire to keep questioning, and I am of firm belief that it is that which counts. I wish you luck in your search for answers and even better questions. 🙂

Best Regards,

Omnislash

Originally posted by Omnislash
I disagree with your notion that one must be ignorant of that which does not fit in with the belief system, but I am highly supportive of your desire to keep questioning, and I am of firm belief that it is that which counts. I wish you luck in your search for answers and even better questions. 🙂

Best Regards,

Omnislash

I stand corrected. The only belief system that is faulty, by virtue of itself, is the system that chooses to ignore facts in order to uphold itself.

However, to believe is to not really know. And, if at some point in the future, we do know something, to believe would be meaningless. I guess it all boils down to wether or not we believe the facts or choose to believe that the facts are not in fact facts, but factuated from speculation. (I just had to do that... - a big grin on my face)

Live long, but more importantly, thrive,

Stocken

Originally posted by stocken
Nietzsche makes for very interesting reading, I'd admit. But if I did well in my original post, you should spot a little bit of Hegel too, I think. That everything is defined by its own opposite, the negations. Good-bad; true-false. Nietzche, of course, disagreed with Hegel on many accounts, still I find both to be very exciting philosophers.

The point, ...[text shortened]...
I'm glad you enjoy the thread, and likewise I enjoy your intellect. Hope to read more of you.

But if I did well in my original post, you should spot a little bit of Hegel too, I think. That everything is defined by its own opposite, the negations.

Yes: dialectic. I have to confess, though, that I’ve not read Hegel. 🙁 I should, I know—I have a certain distrust of “systems” thinking, that is, the attempt to construct and remain within a closed system… I’m sure that that’s not all that Hegel was about.

To add just a bit of whimsy to this, here is a quote from Joann Sfar’s The Rabbi’s Cat: “Western thought works by thesis, antithesis, synthesis, while Judaism [“Talmudic” thought] goes thesis, antithesis, antithesis, antithesis….” 🙂

Originally posted by stocken
Thank you 🙂

I can tell that was a sincere good luck wish from you, and I do, so much appreciate that.

I'm an alien...we do things different!

I will now do something that I find to be very, very complicated. May I request complete silence? Even the most subtle giggle could possibly distract me and throw me into the jaws of intellectual death sooner than... well, intended... we're all going that way you know... ?

How can I, being of sound mind and perfectly aware, ask to be allowed to experiment on you while safely sitting back and collecting the result?

I can't.

I must experiment on myself as well, or it wouldn't be much of a game, would it?

(Actually, since almost noone seems keen on being experimented on - even though I am your creator - I have chosen to do the unthinkable; to run this experiment on myself.)

I will start by assuming the role of a truther. I now believe that everything is true. Even that which is false, is now true. Thus, whatever is said in this thread is true.

I am beautiful. I'm intelligent. I have a lot of spunk.

And, now, ladies and gentleman, I will accept the role of falser. The word I speak is now false. Meaning, to negate the above I'd have to write:

I am not beautiful. I'm not intelligent. And I don't have a lot of spunk.

And, here's the uncertainter:

I don't know if I'm beautiful, intelligent or if I have a lot of spunk.

----

To look at it that way makes me look rediculous since, previously, I've stated I'm an uncertainter. See? I wanna be a truther or a falser. You are programmed to help me be one or the other, but since I'm apparently also a lousy programmer, you just won't help, will ya?

Oh, well, that's life for ya. One has to make ones own choices and draw ones own conclusions, eh?

Someday I will rewake this thread and let you know what I became (if you care to read it then). Till then, merry christmas and happy new year(s)!

🙂

Originally posted by stocken
Yes. Nothing ever existed, and nothing ever will...

This is just not true. I know for sure that something exist. Of course this life could be one big illusion but then the illusion would still exist..... So something exists!