1. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    04 Jul '12 14:36
    Considering the extraordinary complexity of deadly diseases such as AIDS, malaria, the flu, dysentery etc, it seams reasonable to say that if the complexity of life points to intelligent design, then these diseases do too.
    So the question then is why were they designed and by whom?
    Suffering is usually blamed on Adam or Satan or a combination of both.
    So did Satan have a hand in developing some life forms? Is there more than one 'intelligent designer'?
    Do you think we can detect their different styles in the genetic code the write? Do you think maybe Satan signs his name on his pieces?
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    04 Jul '12 14:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Considering the extraordinary complexity of deadly diseases such as AIDS, malaria, the flu, dysentery etc, it seams reasonable to say that if the complexity of life points to intelligent design, then these diseases do too.
    So the question then is why were they designed and by whom?
    Suffering is usually blamed on Adam or Satan or a combination of both.
    ...[text shortened]... t styles in the genetic code the write? Do you think maybe Satan signs his name on his pieces?
    Some say HIV and other STDs are used by God to punish sexual immorality. With gods like this, who needs Satan? 😵
  3. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52612
    04 Jul '12 15:44
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Some say HIV and other STDs are used by God to punish sexual immorality. With gods like this, who needs Satan? 😵
    If we have such a beneficent god, why would it let hundreds of millions die in wars?
  4. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    04 Jul '12 16:01
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    If we have such a beneficent god, why would it let hundreds of millions die in wars?
    War at least can be directly blamed on man and the argument from freewill is used
    (despite the paradox created by the fact that the dead did not choose to die).
    However it is a well known fact that disease kills far more people than wars (even during wars, disease kills more people than guns do (except possibly in very modern wars were medicine has improved).
  5. Standard memberavalanchethecat
    Not actually a cat
    Joined
    09 Apr '10
    Moves
    14251
    04 Jul '12 16:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Considering the extraordinary complexity of deadly diseases such as AIDS, malaria, the flu, dysentery etc, it seams reasonable to say that if the complexity of life points to intelligent design, then these diseases do too.
    So the question then is why were they designed and by whom?
    Suffering is usually blamed on Adam or Satan or a combination of both.
    ...[text shortened]... t styles in the genetic code the write? Do you think maybe Satan signs his name on his pieces?
    I think the idea is that we're supposed to grow by undergoing and, if possible, overcoming hardship and suffering.
  6. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    04 Jul '12 18:191 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Some say HIV and other STDs are used by God to punish sexual immorality. With gods like this, who needs Satan? 😵
    Some say HIV and other STDs are used by God to punish sexual immorality. With gods like this, who needs Satan?


    "And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is greater than I can bear." (Gen. 4:13)

    Sigh. How about we look at chastizement from God another way. How about considering symptoms which are uncomfortable as a warning in love, for a person to consider their ways.

    How about a hangover and splitting headache in the morning cause one to thing "Hmmm. Maybe next time I should be careful how much I indulge in drinking strong alchololic drink."

    How about one consider somethings allowed by our Heavenly Father to be a warning light, a yellow light, a caution, a "proceed at your own risk".

    I am not being trivial about this. But some things can cause a person to stop and consider their ways before God. Some have time to pray, repent, seek forgiveness, and reconciliation with a God of love.

    If you only think "Oh this MEAN God is just punishing me." you are rather like Cain in Genesis. He is not SORRY he is only sorry that he got caught.

    So I believe AIDs has caused many a sinner to have time to consider his life and ways before God. (I said some, not all).

    Now, I expect that someone will of course jump to the conclusion that everyone who is ill with HIV is being disciplined for sinning by God. And then every calamity of any kind will be considered as God's chastizement. Go ahead. Drive the point into that corner. I know some want to.

    That is not my point. My point is that a different heart would think of ailment allowed by God in another attitude. The only way of thinking is not "Damn! I'm being PUNISHED by God the mean one. "

    That is not the only angle to view AIDs or HIV from.
  7. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    04 Jul '12 18:431 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Considering the extraordinary complexity of deadly diseases such as AIDS, malaria, the flu, dysentery etc, it seams reasonable to say that if the complexity of life points to intelligent design, then these diseases do too.
    So the question then is why were they designed and by whom?
    Suffering is usually blamed on Adam or Satan or a combination of both.
    t styles in the genetic code the write? Do you think maybe Satan signs his name on his pieces?
    Elementary, my dear Watson. We can question either the motivations or the perp or the limitations of the perp, or we can question our perceptive and cognitive ability, and possibly, our own motivation to properly understand and appreciate the evidence.

    These are the options in any CSI-like investigation of the scene. Take your pick, choose your side; although that choice is most likely already made going in to the scene.

    At least in a CSI-like scenario, there are qualifying requirements of the abilities of the investigators. The only qualifying requirement here, is the ability to tap the keys.
  8. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    04 Jul '12 18:46
    Originally posted by jaywill
    That is not the only angle to view AIDs or HIV from.
    Is it your view that God designed and created AIDS and HIV?
  9. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    04 Jul '12 18:55
    To restate my point in case it wasn't clear:
    1. Those that promote Intelligent design claim that the complexity of life points to an intelligent designer (and they usually promote the idea of a single specific such intelligent designer).
    2. The complexity of diseases suggests that they too must have been intelligently designed. They did not come about via unguided evolution.
    3. It is clear that many diseases especially those specific to man cause an enormous amount of suffering and death.
    4. Whoever the intelligent designer was presumably not only knew they would cause suffering but specifically designed them to do so. The suffering of man due to disease was planned out by the intelligent designer of those diseases.

    So my questions are:
    a. Is God the intelligent designer or someone else?
    b. If God is the intelligent designer is there some reasonable explanation for his actions?
  10. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    04 Jul '12 19:241 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Some say HIV and other STDs are used by God to punish sexual immorality. With gods like this, who needs Satan? 😵
    So if you tell your children not to go play in the street they will punish their children for playing out in the street by letting them get hit?

    Hmm?

    I know, I know, an all powerful God should string us along like puppet and never let this happen.

    The fact of the matter is that if people obeyed the sexual mandates in the Bible STD's would not be a problem
  11. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    04 Jul '12 19:44
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    To restate my point in case it wasn't clear:
    1. Those that promote Intelligent design claim that the complexity of life points to an intelligent designer (and they usually promote the idea of a single specific such intelligent designer).
    2. The complexity of diseases suggests that they too must have been intelligently designed. They did not come about v ...[text shortened]... e?
    b. If God is the intelligent designer is there some reasonable explanation for his actions?
    I would say, if there is an ID, what can we learn about the designer by looking at the design?

    But here's the rub: What we see is at least partly our creation, in more ways than one.
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    04 Jul '12 20:01
    Originally posted by whodey
    So if you tell your children not to go play in the street they will punish their children for playing out in the street by letting them get hit?

    Hmm?

    I know, I know, an all powerful God should string us along like puppet and never let this happen.

    The fact of the matter is that if people obeyed the sexual mandates in the Bible STD's would not be a problem
    A good parent tries to prevent the child from playing in the busy street. He does not get frustrated, start up the car, and run over his own kid.

    We don't need or want overcompensating mandates to solve the problem. The fundamentalists and paternalists always want to cut down the whole tree because some of the branches wither.
  13. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    04 Jul '12 20:09
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Some say HIV and other STDs are used by God to punish sexual immorality. With gods like this, who needs Satan?


    [b]"And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is greater than I can bear." (Gen. 4:13)


    Sigh. How about we look at chastizement from God another way. How about considering symptoms which are uncomfortable as a warning in ...[text shortened]... ED by God the mean one. "

    That is not the only angle to view AIDs or HIV from.[/b]
    These same people don't seem to care much about whether the affected people actually change their ways. They seem almost delighted at God's disgust with the 'wicked'.

    But maybe you could share your perspective with them the next time you meet one. The idea of prevention/correction would be more palatable than 'punishment as a form of vengeance for defiance of an Authority Figure'.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52612
    04 Jul '12 20:36
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    If we have such a beneficent god, why would it let hundreds of millions die in wars?
    My point is this supposed god would let all that happen. Not a god I would ever worship, but one I would strive to hide away from.
  15. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    04 Jul '12 21:04
    Originally posted by whodey
    So if you tell your children not to go play in the street they will punish their children for playing out in the street by letting them get hit?

    Hmm?

    I know, I know, an all powerful God should string us along like puppet and never let this happen.

    The fact of the matter is that if people obeyed the sexual mandates in the Bible STD's would not be a problem
    I can tell by your halfhearted attempt that you don't really buy your own argument. So why do you make it? In the hope others will buy it?
Back to Top