Thread 66497

@bigdogg said
Thread 66497

@divegeester said
”All humans will ultimately be saved (albeit, perhaps, with a healing spell in hell—ala such as St. Gregory of Nyssa).”

Further.

1) Unless all are saved then to my way of thinking the gospel is moot, God’s sovereignty is non existent and his character is deeply flawed in terms of morality and even insight.

2) the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ where hell triumphs and burning alive for eternity is morally sound, contains visions of a future timeline where “mercy triumphs over judgment” is just a lie, a failure. Revelation is a vision of what could be without the atonement and casts calvary into gigantic triumphant relief against a backdrop of unimaginable carnage and defeat for a loving God.

3) Christ died for all, all are spared this possible future timeline THAT is the good news! How should we react to this good news? By spreading a word that all can come to God through Christ without fear, without debt and in free will. Not doing so does NOT bring back that other future timeline, it simply means a person will live out their life without knowledge of this salvation and without being able to do “good works” through faith.

4) surely there is some consequence!? Yes the bible speaks of rewards in this life and in the next. Paul writes that we are to “work out our salvation” daily.

5) what about Hitler? Think of the worse person who has ever lived and who is deserving of the most horrible execution. Now look at the crucifixion, probably the worst death imaginable, there is the price being paid.

@divegeester said
Further.

1) Unless all are saved then to my way of thinking the gospel is moot, God’s sovereignty is non existent and his character is deeply flawed in terms of morality and even insight.

2) the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ where hell triumphs and burning alive for eternity is morally sound, contains visions of a future timeline where “mercy triumphs over ...[text shortened]... on. Now look at the crucifixion, probably the worst death imaginable, there is the price being paid.

@fmf said
This sounds like a school of thought in Judaism, I think.

@divegeester said
Interesting, I didn’t know that. In Judaism, do non Jews also all get saved by the messiah?

@fmf said
Aren't the Jews still waiting for a messiah?

@divegeester

Matt 7:21 makes it clear that not everyone will get saved.
Interestingly you touch on Revelation but the real elephant in the room are the four references to “The Mark of The Beast” - take this mark and worship the beast then you are toast.

@BigDogg
I believe God set up the universe to achieve one end, create one where true love was possible from those He created, and as such knew it would go wrong since that required choices had to be given, and not everyone was going to choose love. Some were going to choose themselves and everything that would go along with that. That also meant even those who would choose to love Him and each other would also be in sin guilty of corruption. To redeem those who willing chose Him over their own lives, as He gave His life for them. That keeps all of the guilty in their guilt and has the guilt of the redeemed paid for at a great cost to God Himself, as He laid down His life for us, taking on our sins upon Himself as we the guilty put our faith in His grace and mercy we find with Jesus Christ.

This cure is being born again, changing us from the inside out, replacing our hearts of stone for ones of flesh.

@kellyjay said
@BigDogg
I believe God set up the universe to achieve one end, create one where true love was possible from those He created, and as such knew it would go wrong since that required choices had to be given, and not everyone was going to choose love. Some were going to choose themselves and everything that would go along with that. That also meant even those who would choose ...[text shortened]... being born again, changing us from the inside out, replacing our hearts of stone for ones of flesh.

@rajk999 said
What utter mumbo jumbo!! Here is a passage that is alien to your church doctrine.

Tell me what this is saying here :
[i]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobed ...[text shortened]...

This runs completely contrary that only Christians are saved and the rest of the world are damned

@BigDogg

I read through a lot.
I agree that was pretty constructuve.

@sonship said
@BigDogg

I read through a lot.
I agree that was pretty constructuve.

@divegeester

I was going to paste in what (I think) vestid wrote which I enoyed.

Christ gave the example of the prodigal son as an example as to how he relates to the sinner. The prodigal son decides to go off on his own and wants nothing more to do with his father. All the son wants is all that his father has already given him, as if it were really his to begin with. However, the father obliges the sons will and gives him his inheritance and sends him on his way. Now at this time they are seperated. The father cannot help the son or communicate with the son because the son does not wish for the father to be there for him. The father must honer his sons will. However, the father never stops loving his son and, in fact, awaits his arrival with open arms as soon as the son wills to return. This is how I view God verses the sinner. As the God of life and love withdraws from you, via your own choice I might add, terrible things await you. This can be seen in the account of Job. Notice that God does not inflict pain and death upon Job, rather, he simply withdraws his hand slightly from his life and Satan has a field day with him. Granted, this is not the norm and in fact, his friends drilled him as to what wicked act he had committed in order to open himself up to such abuse.