14 Oct 11
Originally posted by tomtom232Closer, but...
Yes! Thus, if it is a sin to be born of a man and woman then the Virgin Mary was another instance of abstinence not being particularly effective!
Try again.
Anyone else?
For some reason, I'm finding the atheists' attempts to grasp the significance of Christian dogma quite humorous today.
14 Oct 11
Originally posted by SuzianneNo I'm not a Christian and yes I did find that post pointless and misinformed.
Obviously you aren't, and so my point completely eludes you.
I dont have to be a Christian to know that the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception and not Christ's. Did you know that or are you just confused?
14 Oct 11
Originally posted by galveston75
If God became a man then God was on earth? Who was watching over heaven?
If God became a man then God was on earth? Who was watching over heaven?
The Triune God.
In Isaiah God tells that He desires not to live only in heaven but IN a man. This is deeper than God dwelling in heaven. This is God becoming united with man.
"Thus says Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, And the earth the footstool for My feet. Where then is the house that you will build for Me, And where is the place of my rest. ?
For all these things My hand has made, And so all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah.
But to this kind of man will I look, to [him who] is poor And of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word." (Isaiah 66:1-2)
The phrase "But to this kind of man WILL I LOOK" indicates that for His real "house," for His real dwelling place, Jehovah God looks to live in man.
God looks not toward the heavens for Him to occupy solely. God looks to "organically" dwell in a certain kind of man.
In the incarnation of God, the Son of God was the first of this certain kind of man whom God looks to dwell and to find His rest. And while He was in the womb of Mary for nine months and growing up in Nazareth, He also was holding the universe together and overseeing the heavens.
He became Jesus Christ to secure not only a man, but a entire city of saved people, the New Jerusalem in which He lives and finds His rest for eternity.
Christ is the Head of this entity and our legitimate object of worship as well as our indwelling God as divine and eternal life.
14 Oct 11
Mary wasn't a virgin, for starters.
The original Hebrew word that was translated to Arabic and later to Latin and English was a word meaning cleaner than white, and the word at the time was indeed 'virgin' or 'virginal'. It didn't mean virginal as in today's concept, but it meant that Mary was chosen because she was a clean living woman, honest and pure. Jesus had older brothers, we know this. How did they get here if Mary was a 'virgin' using today's usage of the word? More immaculate conceptions? Somebody said Jesus was the only one. Get real! The original translation was lost, quite simply. Ever heard of Chinese whispers?
Jeez, some of you guy's take the words so literally you must be afraid to fart!!
-m.
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14 Oct 11
Originally posted by mikelomI am not entirely sure where you get any of this. As I understand, the idea of Mary's virginity was supposedly prophesied in the Book of Isaiah. Some scholars later suggested that Matthew has mistranslated the prophesy, translating the original Hebraic word as parthenos, whereas the original Hebrew only meant 'a young woman'. This was then translated into the Latin as virgo, from where we derive the word 'virgin'.
Mary wasn't a virgin, for starters.
The original Hebrew word that was translated to Arabic and later to Latin and English was a word meaning cleaner than white, and the word at the time was indeed 'virgin' or 'virginal'. It didn't mean virginal as in today's concept, but it meant that Mary was chosen because she was a clean living woman, honest and pure. ...[text shortened]... ez, some of you guy's take the words so literally you must be afraid to fart!!
-m.
I do not know any Hebrew or know exactly what the original prophesy in Isaiah is. However, just with my knowledge of classics, I would expect that the Hebrew people would conflate the idea of a 'clean living woman' with virginity.
14 Oct 11
Originally posted by Conrau KSo, in essence, you agree?
I am not entirely sure where you get any of this. As I understand, the idea of Mary's virginity was supposedly prophesied in the Book of Isaiah. Some scholars later suggested that Matthew has mistranslated the prophesy, translating the original Hebraic word as parthenos, whereas the original Hebrew only meant 'a young woman'. This was then translated ...[text shortened]... that the Hebrew people would conflate the idea of a 'clean living woman' with virginity.
-m.
14 Oct 11
Originally posted by mikelomThis does make sense as the Bible only states that it is a sin to have been born of man and woman(born in sin) but never does it state that it is a sin for a woman to give birth with the seed of a man... just more contradictions in the bible!
Mary wasn't a virgin, for starters.
The original Hebrew word that was translated to Arabic and later to Latin and English was a word meaning cleaner than white, and the word at the time was indeed 'virgin' or 'virginal'. It didn't mean virginal as in today's concept, but it meant that Mary was chosen because she was a clean living woman, honest and pure. ...[text shortened]... ez, some of you guy's take the words so literally you must be afraid to fart!!
-m.
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14 Oct 11
Originally posted by tomtom232I have a split personality so you can add two more.
It may be daft but this thread has one of the most diverse poster population per post in the spiritual forum.
Only 13(not including this post) posts and 8 different poster identities.
No he doesn't. Don't listen to him.
See, that proves it.
I want to know what the prevailing theory of conception was at the time the virgin birth was prophesied. Isaiah 7:14, ~7th century BCE. Maybe virgin birth was ascribed fairly often in those days.
14 Oct 11
Originally posted by JS357Then(not including this post or the post you quoted) it would be 18 poster identities and 28 posts.
I have a split personality so you can add two more.
No he doesn't. Don't listen to him.
See, that proves it.
I want to know what the prevailing theory of conception was at the time the virgin birth was prophesied. Isaiah 7:14, ~7th century BCE. Maybe virgin birth was ascribed fairly often in those days.
Still not bad.