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Originally posted by kd2aczWell, you are only approaching the idea from a different direction.
My apologies if this has run it's course, I didn't know. I will look back a little farther the next time, certianly wonldn't want to bore anyone. 😉
My apologies if this thread is not intended to eventually be "how can God be great when he's obviously a vicious lying murderous bastard"?
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Originally posted by SuzianneWell given that the god described in the OT IS "obviously a vicious lying murderous bastard" it's a reasonable question.
Well, you are only approaching the idea from a different direction.
My apologies if this thread is not intended to eventually be "how can God be great when he's obviously a vicious lying murderous bastard"?
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Originally posted by googlefudgeReasonable question or not, my point is that this type of thread has been done to death and the theists and the atheists will never agree.
Well given that the god described in the OT [b]IS "obviously a vicious lying murderous bastard" it's a reasonable question.[/b]
Anyways, your "given" is false. Therefore...
Originally posted by SuzianneI would second a motion that "...this type of thread has been done to death..." should be a criterion for not starting or replying to a thread, except that this forum would fall silent. 😉
Reasonable question or not, my point is that this type of thread has been done to death and the theists and the atheists will never agree.
Anyways, your "given" is false. Therefore...
Originally posted by JS357Hmmm, yeah, true, but I can still offer my eye-rolling opinion on this particular topic. 🙂
I would second a motion that "...this type of thread has been done to death..." should be a criterion for not starting or replying to a thread, except that this forum would fall silent. 😉
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Originally posted by kd2aczThanks kd2acz. I watched 80% or so of one video.
I happened on this debate between Christopher Hitchens vs John Lennox. What are your thoughts, does Hitchens or Lennox make the point? The video is nearly 2 hours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p1mDPQw1Yk
I've had hours and hours of hearing Hitchens debate.
There are some other good debates with Christopher Hitchens.
As a Theist, these are some responders whose debates with Hitchens I would recommend: (that does not mean these are all Christian Theists necessarily)
John Lennox
William Lane Craig
Denish D'souza
Frank Turek
David Berlinski
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Originally posted by SuzianneAnd here lies the rub...
Reasonable question or not, my point is that this type of thread has been done to death and the theists and the atheists will never agree.
Anyways, your "given" is false. Therefore...
Your god is the one described in the OT.
In the OT god creates hell (a place of eternal torture for those he doesn't like),
commits genocide and incites genocide multiple times, approves and sanctions
torture and rape, denigrates women, and IS "obviously a vicious lying murderous bastard"
ANY literal reading of the acts ascribed to god in the OT can come to no other conclusion.
And a non-literal reading of the OT simply means that you are making stuff up.
The god AS DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE is evil pure and simple.
If you don't read it literally then you are not believing in the god of the bible you are believing
in something else.
So my given is not false.
And yes I can easily provide verses to support ever single one of those statements should you
be incapable of reading your own bible to find them.
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Originally posted by googlefudgeNo. Your given IS false. You judge God through the narrowest lens imaginable (and yet you would also call out God for using a narrow lens to judge you), expect Him to live up to YOUR human/materialist value system (while complaining about God's value system) and call Him evil (even while denigrating Him for presumably making the same judgement about you).
And here lies the rub...
Your god is the one described in the OT.
In the OT god creates hell (a place of eternal torture for those he doesn't like),
commits genocide and incites genocide multiple times, approves and sanctions
torture and rape, denigrates women, and IS "obviously a vicious lying murderous bastard"
ANY literal reading of the a le one of those statements should you
be incapable of reading your own bible to find them.
Nice. Continue complaining about the speck in God's eye while ignoring the beam in your own. Good show.
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Originally posted by SuzianneYes I judge the god of the bible using secular morality because secular morality is superior to religious morality.
No. Your given IS false. You judge God through the narrowest lens imaginable (and yet you would also call out God for using a narrow lens to judge you), expect Him to live up to YOUR human/materialist value system (while complaining about God's value system) and call Him evil (even while denigrating Him for presumably making the same judgement about you). ...[text shortened]... inue complaining about the speck in God's eye while ignoring the beam in your own. Good show.
And your god apparently wishes to punish me for all eternity simply for not worshipping your god.
What I do other than that is irrelevant.
That makes your god the greatest evil imaginable.
Your god is a piece of filth. And fortunately also non-existent.