17 Apr 22
@great-big-stees saidIt is very rare that it leads to a change of beliefs, but it can lead to a perfectly pleasant conversation with possible deep thoughts and reflection on both sides as long as they try to remain respectful of each others' beliefs.
very often that discourse between people of different faiths/beliefs leads to a change in their faiths/beliefs or do they just continue to argue.🤔
Toxic environments/attitudes always results in arguments.
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17 Apr 22
@suzianne saidI must admit that I don’t get here much but from what I’ve read it seems kinda…aggressive.🤔
It is very rare that it leads to a change of beliefs, but it can lead to a perfectly pleasant conversation with possible deep thoughts and reflection on both sides as long as they try to remain respectful of each others' beliefs.
Toxic environments/attitudes always results in arguments.
17 Apr 22
Back when I used to be religious, online discussions helped me to believe in evolution.
I always believed that truth would stand up to scrutiny; religious beliefs like creationism didn't. It wasn't too long afterward that I stopped being religious altogether.
So I'm one instance where it has happened, though that was before I joined RHP. Being open and honest enough to allow your fundamental beliefs to be challenged is tougher than it sounds.
@great-big-stees saidSpeaking generally it would probably be as Suzianne describes, but yours is a question covering broad spectrum of interactions between people coming from different perspectives. You question could just as easily be applied to politics, especially American politics, which is pretty full on toxicity. “Spirituality” discussions are in some ways just politics of the soul.
very often that discourse between people of different faiths/beliefs leads to a change in their faiths/beliefs or do they just continue to argue.🤔
Speaking personally, my beliefs have changed over time, over many years. Those changes have been brought about by a mix of Christians, agnostics, atheists, thinkers, speakers and so on. In this forum my beliefs have been challenged by Christian and atheists. I’ve not felt challenged by those of another faith.
Which type of challenge has impacted me personally?
Questions such as “why do you believe in god, it’s all bullshyte?” Have zero impact on anyone. But if anyone asks me, does that belief you hold really make sense within the construct of your Christian faith? Then that has made me think hard.
Another example is morality: E.G Is what I believe objectively morally sound?
Another might be: what you believe is not consistent at a higher level of truth. What I mean by that can be explained thus:
- What is the highest level of truth about something? It exists. So God exists. Do I believe that.
- next level might be - Good is good. Do I believe that.
- next level might be - God is all powerful, all knowing and sovereign. Do I believe that.
If these are the fundamentals within which my faith is constructed, then lower truths which contradict these higher truths cannot be right.
So in answer to your question, yes it is possible to change a persons approach to their beliefs but only through appealing to common higher truths which might contradict an asserted lower truth.
Hope that makes some sense.
@great-big-stees saidI had already lost my faith before I started using the internet much and certainly before I turned up on this website. I find many topics covered here interesting but I don't have any desire to change anyone's beliefs.
very often that discourse between people of different faiths/beliefs leads to a change in their faiths/beliefs or do they just continue to argue.🤔
By contrast, I participated on the Debates Forum for several years and I think debates/ discussions/ arguments there definitely tweaked my opinions over time. I also know I very occasionally changed a few minds on a few issues here and there.
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17 Apr 22
@fmf saidI, at one point in my life, thought I'd like to become a minister (Anglican). Going into my 4th year at university my minister's son, a good friend of mine, was killed along with his girlfriend while hitchhiking back from Mexico (they were killed in the US). I went to see my minister and asked him what he felt towards their killer(s), who were never caught. He said that he forgave them. I was blown away. I said that if that happened to me forgiveness would never have crossed my mind. It was then that I decided that that "calling" was not for me. I'd have felt like a fraud.
I had already lost my faith before I started using the internet much and certainly before I turned up on this website. I find many topics covered here interesting but I don't have any desire to change anyone's beliefs.
By contrast, I participated on the Debates Forum for several years and I think debates/ discussions/ arguments there definitely tweaked my opinions over time. I also know I very occasionally changed a few minds on a few issues here and there.
17 Apr 22
@great-big-stees saidI became a Christian at 25, my father in law in his 80’s. I would have described myself as agnostic before, and my father in-law as hard Atheist.
very often that discourse between people of different faiths/beliefs leads to a change in their faiths/beliefs or do they just continue to argue.🤔
17 Apr 22
@great-big-stees saidI never aspired to be a priest but I did weigh very carefully the possibility of becoming a brother in an order called The Society of the Sacred Heart.
I, at one point in my life, thought I'd like to become a minister (Anglican).
17 Apr 22
@great-big-stees saidIt didn't get as far as being accepted or rejected. I decided to "walk my faith" in a different way.
Hmmmm. I see why you were "rejected". Couldn't get past the "pat down".
17 Apr 22
@vivify saidYou don't have to believe in Creationism (as a magic-based creation) just because you're religious. Neither evolution nor creationism or religiosity have to be held in the absence of the other. Both would have you think so, and in that way they only promote the divide, but there doesn't have to be a "divide".
Back when I used to be religious, online discussions helped me to believe in evolution.
I always believed that truth would stand up to scrutiny; religious beliefs like creationism didn't. It wasn't too long afterward that I stopped being religious altogether.
So I'm one instance where it has happened, though that was before I joined RHP. Being open and honest enough to allow your fundamental beliefs to be challenged is tougher than it sounds.
17 Apr 22
@great-big-stees saidWhat thoughts did you have which drive this thinking? And why specify “(Anglican)?”
I, at one point in my life, thought I'd like to become a minister (Anglican).
17 Apr 22
@great-big-stees saidYes as long as we don't have the aggression and sadly all too frequent point scoring that one can encounter in this corner of RHP.
very often that discourse between people of different faiths/beliefs leads to a change in their faiths/beliefs or do they just continue to argue.🤔
The biggest impact on me was a guy that I met by accident whose mantra was "keep an open mind", which i have tried to adopt and found that it makes things releated to spirituality richer. You can always learn.
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17 Apr 22
1 edit
@Great-Big-Stees
I believe that while some pairs of people appear to just continue to argue, some others change their mind on something perhaps while observing silently an argument.
I do not feel anyone is obligated to supply names and dates for proof of this.
God knows.
If no one never changed their beliefs there would be no believers or former believers. History and biographies and autobiographies manifest that both cases occur.
Dr. Rodney Stark is the name of a scholar who socialogically studies conversions from one belief to another.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Stark
Rodney William Stark (born July 8, 1934) is an American sociologist of religion who was a longtime professor of sociology and of comparative religion at the University of Washington. He is presently the Distinguished Professor of the Social Sciences at Baylor University, co-director of the university's Institute for Studies of Religion, and founding editor of the Interdisciplinary Journal of Research on Religion.[1]
Stark has written over 30 books, including The Rise of Christianity (1996), and more than 140 scholarly articles on subjects as diverse as prejudice, crime, suicide, and city life in ancient Rome.[2] He has twice won the Distinguished Book Award from the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion, for The Future of Religion: Secularization, Revival, and Cult Formation (1985, with William Sims Bainbridge), and for The Churching of America 1776–1990 (1992, with Roger Finke).[3]