03 Aug 06
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our understanding in the universe. I don't preted to know what it is. In spending some considerable amount of time delving into the history of human psychology I can definately see where and why religion as evolved to the place it is. But in putting religion aside and seeking purely on a spiritual level I find that the outcomes change drastically.
On that note.....
What would you define the following as?
A person feels worn out and beaten down in life. Overcome with pain and failing to understand the purpose of it all they lose hope, lose faith and no longer enjoy or flourish in life. Many prayers are offered up to "God" and many nights are spent begging and pleading for help.
At what seems the very brink of despair certain twists of fate occur that lead such a person to experience very humbling circumstances and become reminded of all the could have beens and how life has been truly full of miricles and blessings. Seemingly impossible circumstances and a very clear message to one who who is longing for answers.
Is this the voice of God? Is this the psychology of the human mind to allow us to survive? How or why would a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by mokkoHey mokko,
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our und ...[text shortened]... a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
Long time no speak!! I like your ideas here, however, it's my conjecture that (as you know) the human mind is very good at finding patterns, even when they don't exist. Most people go through bad times in their lives, when they wished things are very different to what they are. Some people have these experiences that you talk about, but I'd guess most don't. The difference is, the ones who talk about it are the self same people who DID have these "revalations". We all know that good evangelical christians are blessed with extra large mouths, and extra large noses in order to help "spread the lords word". I'd say that it's probably these individuals that you frequently hear about.
There is also, of course, a scale effect. Our brains evolved to deal with living in small groups, as we have for most of our evolutionary history. The chance of a random, but unlikely, event happening to one of our group is so vanishingly small as to be considered a miracle. However, nowadays we live in an information age, where reporters scour the earth. Anything even remotely out of the ordinary gets reported. We get 6 "miracles" on the news everyday, but our brains don't realise that this only represents one odd thing happening to 1 person in 1,000,000,000. At those odds, almost anything can happen!
03 Aug 06
1 edit
Originally posted by mokkoWhat would you define the following as?
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our und a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
It's a human being who is not suicidal but is very depressed. Circumstances are always changing for anyone, though, and eventually circumstances will be such that the person feels differently and can appreciate certain things in life. At some point a random event triggers a subconscious association with something that makes the person feel more hopeful and satisfied with her lot.
If you can't define God, what is it that you believe in? You believe in a word? You believe the word "God" exists? We all know that. However you sound like you believe something else; you believe in the existence of something that you call God. What is it? Just some unknown thing? Do you know anything about it's characteristics? Is it a person? Can it influence anything in the universe? Does it have mass? Why do you use a word to refer to it? The word God must mean SOMETHING to you. I doubt by "God" you mean the same thing as "table", for example.
"seeking purely on a spiritual level"
What does that mean? I don't understand. I don't use the word "spiritual" and I don't know what it means.
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by mokkoIt is not the voice of God. It is the individual's perspective and attitude changing. When you hit rock bottom, the only place you can go is up. It could also be that person's illusion, that things were not really as bad as they thought. In your words, it is "the psychology of the mind to allow us to survive".
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our und ...[text shortened]... a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
B.
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by mokkoI can only talk about what I believe and what I have expereinced in regards to my own faith which is based in scripture. I will therefore talk in terms of the Christian faith. When Moses asked God who he should say has sent him God retorted, "I am that I am". He is simply the totality of reality. Can one fully understand or comprehend or label the totality of reality? If so that would make you equal or greater to him, no? However, this does not mean that we cannot come to know him if we choose to allow him to reveal himself to us.
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our und ...[text shortened]... a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
As far as the rest of your post about feeling down and out a scripture came to mind that you may find inspirational.
2 Corinthians 12:7 .....there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, "My grace is sufficient for thee; for my strength is made perfect in weakness." Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
It seems as though Paul had a "thorn in the flesh". He does not extrapolate upon what this is, however. What this scripture says to me is that if we empty ourselves of ourselves, God can then fill the space that is emptied. Therefore, God is able to work better through us as he becomes stronger in us. It appears that this thorn in the flesh Pauls refers to, prevented him from being exalted in his own mind and getting a big head, so to speak. He even asks God to take it away but to no avail. It appears that God knows what is best for us even when that means we may suffer to some degree as a result. Had God removed the thorn Paul would have focused more on his own abilities and/or accomplishments and relied less on God. The problem with this, however, is that God is the powerfull one, not Paul. In effect, as Paul emptied himself of himself God filled this space which allowed the power of God to work through him. Thus he became more powerfull and effective as he became weaker in himself.
I can tell you that in my own life I can relate to Paul's suffering. One of the thorns in my life has been depression. What I have found is that the more I focused on myself and my own misfortune, the more depressed I became. Conversely, the more I focused on other things the less depressed I became. It seems as though depression is very narcassistic, or at least in my experience. I chose to focus on the things of God and the promises of God rather than my own misfortunes. Little by little it changed me. Although we all have a certain degree of inward strength, the real strength or greater strength comes from an outward source. The trick is learning to tap into it by emptying yourself of yourself and allowing God to work through you. As Christ says, "My grace is sufficient for you".
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by mokko" believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is."
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our und ...[text shortened]... a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
Could you explain to me how it is possible to believe in something you cannot define?
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by howardgeeSo are you saying that you do that believe in anything that your mind does not grasp fully? By that reasoning, you will never believe in anything bigger than yourself..... that seems a small world to abide in.... low risk though
" believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is."
Could you explain to me how it is possible to believe in something you cannot define?
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by mokkoi think since im christian im supposed to say yes it is god, but i dont even know lol
Is this the voice of God? Is this the psychology of the human mind to allow us to survive? How or why would a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?[/b]
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by damage79There's a difference between something one's mind cannot grasp fully and something that is completely undefined.
So are you saying that you do that believe in anything that your mind does not grasp fully? By that reasoning, you will never believe in anything bigger than yourself..... that seems a small world to abide in.... low risk though
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by howardgeeWell, if the thing you believe in is vague, then you wouldn't expect to be able to define it.
" believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is."
Could you explain to me how it is possible to believe in something you cannot define?
I believe in justice. However, I'd have to work to define it. Does that mean I don't believe in it?
03 Aug 06
Originally posted by mokkoWould you be happy to understand by God something like "the unexpected resilience of the human spirit"?
Some believe, some don't, some are unsure.
I believe in what is generally known as God. But I have never claimed to be able to define just what God is. It's taken me years of questioning, observing and seeking answers to get to the point I'm at in life now. Which is the same as anyone else. We simple don't know.
I know there is something beyond our und ...[text shortened]... a persons mind feel the need to justify such life experiences as either random or devine?
03 Aug 06
WOW! Some real great responses. Thanks.
I personally have several trains of thought when it comes to religion, spirituality and God. And I say "God" only because that's what I've learned it to be in my culture. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
I have had my own personal experience in life that has led me to believe in God. I see and define God in very vague terms simply because to do otherwise would indicate I have an understanding or knowledge of something that I don't.
Through understanding the evolution of the human psyche in regards to survival religion has served a very usefull purpose, both in controlling the masses and in personal accountability and appeasement.
Yet so many people still turn to the unknown for answers. And if a person learns to listen close enough the answers always appear. The guiding hand of God? Or the power of the subconscience mind to manifest it's own reality?
03 Aug 06
2 edits
Originally posted by mokkoWhat other option do you have if you yourself do not have the answers? You will always need answers and if you had the answers you would never have to seek the unknown. As Christ said seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be open, for whoever seeks shall find. Therefore, it depends soley on the degree of you seeking the answers as to the level of success in finding those answers. We are finite beings who will never know it all.
Yet so many people still turn to the unknown for answers.