Originally posted by finnegan"“Naturally the common people don't want war;"
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...[text shortened]... country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
Google it. You are being manipulated.
I do not remember advocating going to war against Islam or anyone else, unfortunately my political masters never consult me on these issues, and my invitation to the meeting always gets lost in the post.
Nations especially relatively powerful ones go to war for a myriad of reasons:- Land, Gold, Oil, or just to test some new weaponry; what they never do is go to war in order to defend their subjects right to free speech. In fact they will usually take the loss of free speech as a bonus and carry on.
I fear it is you who is being manipulated.
I understand that as we are powerful relative to the Muslim world we need to show constraint in our critisism of Islam (especially when it comes to vulnerable Muslims in our own communities), but the video in question was made by someone from the Egyptian Coptic community who are weak relative to the Islamic communities who have a proven and ongoing propensity to violence and oppression against them, and for me that is a rule changer.
I find it quite disturbing for someone on the left to be quite so keen to throw him to lions, rather than risk appearing in any way supportive of a critique of Islam.
1 edit
The post that was quoted here has been removedYou must stop misquoting people I never claimed it was a "scholarly" critique of anything, is it the use of the word 'critique' in a non scholarly setting that you are objecting to?
The video is attributed to an Egyptian born Coptic Christian whether you or Finnegan like it or not that makes Him a member of that community in regard to his critisism of Islam at the very least it will have informed His opinion of Islam.
The reason I would suggest that this film is criticized by the Coptics that live in the region is more to do with a fear of yet another violent reaction from extremist Muslims than a heartfelt rejection of it (and who could blame them).
"Indeed, this video might well become popular among some
of the many Americans who already fear and hate Islam and all Muslims.
What if this video incites violence against Muslims in the United States?"
Then I would criticise them for being as Racist and violent as their govt, I take it you will be blaming an angry amateur film making Coptic Christian of Egyptian origin (nice)
Where you and finnegan's argument is flawed is in your apparent belief that if we placate violent racist thugs of any description they cease to be violent racist thugs, they do not, they will take your appeasement as proof that their anger and violence is righteous.
What you should never do is give up your right to free speech.
The post that was quoted here has been removedWell you are wrong about that stupid video inciting hate crimes against Muslims in the US, that just didn't happen. How could it happen from a film as obviously satirical and dumb as that one? People in the US just see it as a joke, a laughing stock for the maker.
The real problem in the US is the right wing nut job Christians trying to take over the county, as in Kentucky where they are now allowed to derail evolution and teach creationism as if it were actual science.
Very confusing to young impressionable minds who don't need that kind of BS taught in a science class.
You want to take creation in a religion class, go for it. Don't contaminate a real science class with creationism.
The religious nut job right wingers want nothing more than a return to the early 18th century where the church had total control over every aspect of people's lives.
They would throw out the concept of separation of church and state just as Muslims try to do in some countries around the world, not succeeding so far in Turkey.
-Removed-No. I'm saying if the bible is to be believed, then nothing can possibly happen that God willed not to happen. All things work according to His overall plan. People don't give God enough credit. God deserves all the credit. The evil things we do, He--in His omniscience--creates a way for it to work toward good.
Horrible things that happen today can ultimately work toward the greater good, even if it means 2,000 years have to pass.
What I am saying is very rudimentary and remedial when it comes to the messages of the bible, but surprisingly many people don't get it.
Originally posted by kevcvs57
You must stop misquoting people I never claimed it was a "scholarly" critique of anything, is it the use of the word 'critique' in a non scholarly setting that you are objecting to?
The video is attributed to an Egyptian born Coptic Christian whether you or Finnegan like it or not that makes Him a member of that community in regard to his critisism of Is ...[text shortened]... violence is righteous.
What you should never do is give up your right to free speech.
Where you and finnegan's argument is flawed is in your apparent belief that if we placate violent racist thugs of any description they cease to be violent racist thugs, they do not, they will take your appeasement as proof that their anger and violence is righteous.
What you should never do is give up your right to free speech
You are mistaken in several aspects of this.
Far from advocating that we placate racist thugs of any description, I (only speaking for myself) have consistently argued the opposite, that they should be confronted. For the avoidance of doubt this includes muslim racist thugs.
I specifically said earlier that to oppose those who incite violence is not equivalent to condoning the violence they incite. Obviously it is not right that people are susceptible to such incitement in quite so predictable a manner.
That said, I do believe that we need to confront those who incite violence and not confuse hate speech with free speech. Indeed, hate speech is in itself a form of violence.
By all means the right to free speech is pivotal to any democracy. But if you are not prepared to stand up to hate speech then I am afraid you endanger the very democracy you wish to protect.
You are not acknowledging that rights can and do come into conflict with each other. For example, human rights can and do come into conflict with the right to free speech. I think a good example in the English context (which you will be aware of I am sure) has been the invasion of the right to privacy by News of the World journalists.
What is interesting when this happens is the process by which we decide which right has precedence. By all means preach to Islamic countries the importance of free speech, but if you do so in the context of massive violations of their human rights then your argument lacks appeal.
Originally posted by kevcvs57You mean your elected representative in Parliment did not vote on the matter?
"“Naturally the common people don't want war;"
I do not remember advocating going to war against Islam or anyone else, unfortunately my political masters never consult me on these issues, and my invitation to the meeting always gets lost in the post.
Nations especially relatively powerful ones go to war for a myriad of reasons:- Land, Gold, Oil, or ju ...[text shortened]... throw him to lions, rather than risk appearing in any way supportive of a critique of Islam.
Tony Blair did it on his own?
God bless Tony Blair!
http://www.cogwriter.com/news/religious-news/tony-blair-explains-why-he-became-catholic-ted-kennedy-wrote-pope/
Originally posted by RJHindsThe cool thing about the way He does it, is usually the person made a fool is too stubborn or narcissistic to realize it and they just keep on doing their thing... much to the entertainment (though occasional annoyance) for the rest of us. 😏
Perhaps, it is another of God's way to fool those that are wise in their own eyes. 😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
Originally posted by kevcvs57There is much doubt cast on the idea that there is such a concept as evolution in existence. There is no evidence for evolution. All the valid evidence is against evolution. So you are right in your doubt. 😏
He certainly casts doubt on the idea that evolution is leading our development in a forward direction.