Originally posted by Proper Knob
There is no dilemma when dealing with the care and safety of children. Child safety is paramount. End of. That you think there is a dilemma I find slightly disturbing to be honest.

As for my question, you got the wrong end of the stick. I'm asking what you would do if a child of JW parents told you they were being abused? Not that they accused you of being an abuser.

I find your lack of faith disturbing but I don't mention that.

No one has said that child safety is not paramount, the moral dilemma is not a dilemma over child safety, its a dilemma that a minster of God faces when he has promised absolute confidentiality in a matter and is burdened with a matter as serious as the abuse of children. It appears to me that you do not understand the position that this puts him in if I am honest.

Ok I understand now. The matter is quite clear, in the UK there is mandatory reporting which supersedes that of penitent privilege, meaning of course that a minster of God is under duress to report any instances of child abuse to the relevant authorities as soon as they come to light. Penitent privilege does not prevent this nor can it be used to prevent access to information or hinder in any way investigations by civil authorities.

So if a kid came to me and said that they were being abused, I would drive them to the nearest police station, which is not far from me and give the matter into the hands of the police. I am a minster of God, I have been trained to deal with sin, I have not been trained to deal with criminality. It is a matter for the police.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so you couldn't provide a single example - let me know when you can.

examples?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
examples?

yes examples of vigilantes who issue warnings and then exonerate the object of their violence when that object demonstrates a repentant attitude.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes examples of vigilantes who issue warnings and then exonerate the object of their violence when that object demonstrates a repentant attitude.

what would that prove?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what would that prove?

that your allegation that God is a vigilante is twaddle.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
that your allegation that God is a vigilante is twaddle.

no it wouldnt. look in a dictionary.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
no it wouldnt. look in a dictionary.

dictionaries? dictionaries? we don't need no stinking dictionaries! you look in a dictionary amigo.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I find your lack of faith disturbing but I don't mention that.

No one has said that child safety is not paramount, the moral dilemma is not a dilemma over child safety, its a dilemma that a minster of God faces when he has promised absolute confidentiality in a matter and is burdened with a matter as serious as the abuse of children. It appears t ...[text shortened]... deal with sin, I have not been trained to deal with criminality. It is a matter for the police.

You are correct, I don't understand. I'm an atheist and always have been as long as I can remember. 🙂

As for the rest of your post, the succinct answer is 'good'.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You are correct, I don't understand. I'm an atheist and always have been as long as I can remember. 🙂

As for the rest of your post, the succinct answer is 'good'.

Its rather interesting for I have always had a belief in God since I was little. I am glad our procedure meets your standards.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its rather interesting for I have always had a belief in God since I was little. I am glad our procedure meets your standards.

'our'? are all jw's instructed to follow that procedure?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
But you are a mere minstrel not a fully ordained and duly appointed minister of God and have no recourse to the provision of penitent privilege, you could not therefore invoke a clause of confidentiality in the case of a confession. I on the other hand face much more weighty dilemmas!

Yes child safety is paramount for sure, but their is also du ...[text shortened]...

If someone accused me of child abuse I would probably ask them to prove it in a court of law.

I don't understand this. What 'weighty dilemmas' do you face if there is no penitent privilege here in the UK? Paul counselled Christians to follow the laws of the land.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I don't understand this. What 'weighty dilemmas' do you face if there is no penitent privilege here in the UK? Paul counselled Christians to follow the laws of the land.

I was not thinking of me, or Jehovahs Witnesses, nor of the UK but there are of course different 'ministers of God' in other countries who will face a dilemma where mandatory reporting does not apply. For example those Catholic priests who hear the confession of those seeking absolution. This presents a real moral dilemma for them because of their beliefs.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
'our'? are all jw's instructed to follow that procedure?

I don't know if they are or not. I can only speak for myself in this regard. Our is used with regard to Jehovahs witnesses in the UK, I don't know what the procedure is in other countries.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I was not thinking of me, or Jehovahs Witnesses, nor of the UK but there are of course different 'ministers of God' in other countries who will face a dilemma in other countries where mandatory reporting does not apply. For example those Catholic priests who hear the confession of those seeking absolution. This presents a real moral dilemma for them because of their beliefs.

You said - 'I on the other hand face more weighty dilemmas' - now you're claiming you weren't thinking of yourself. Doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You said - 'I on the other hand face more weighty dilemmas' - now you're claiming you weren't thinking of yourself. Doesn't make sense.

I think I have explained my position clearly. How many people will come to you and confess their sins? not many I would imagine, whereas they are more likely to come to me, a minster of God. I don't face the moral dilemma of Catholic priests because here there is mandatory reporting, but I am more likely to face more moral dilemmas than you are likely to face as a consequence of being a minster of God. You will never have to discipline someone for immorality, will you, just by way of example. Why this should cause confusion, I cannot say.