12 Feb 15
Just watched this and I am absolutely appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards. If you get a chance watch it . The perfect way to prevent a young mind from becoming open, questioning and creative before it has any chance to resist that indoctrination!!!!!!!,
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12 Feb 15
Originally posted by OdBodI've seen that program on the lists...
Just watched this and I am absolutely appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards. If you get a chance watch it . The perfect way to prevent a young mind from becoming open, questioning and creative before it has any chance to resist that indoctrination!!!!!!!,
I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff.
I have seen clips of similar stuff before and can't comprehend how it's not classified as child abuse.
12 Feb 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeWhile I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
I've seen that program on the lists...
I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff.
I have seen clips of similar stuff before and can't comprehend how it's not classified as child abuse.
12 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes you are defending jesus camp. Your position would suggest that those parents of say,the Hitler youth or maybe the children suicide bombers had some perverse right to "inculcate" their children and others should not comment.
While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
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12 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe are exactly the same people who say that parents don't get to beat their children,
While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
that they don't get to fake kidnap their 6 year old to teach him about 'stranger danger'***,
they don't get to rape them, ect ect
While there is no [known, and probably existent] perfect way to raise kids, there is an
awful lot we do know about what does and does not work. And for things known to be
harmful, both to the child and to society as a whole, society has an interest in preventing.
Parents do not always know best, and sometimes they are so bad that they loose the right
to continue to raise their kids because of the harm they are doing to them.
*** http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/06/stranger_danger_kidnapping_denise_kroutil_elizabeth_hupp_arrested_after.html
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12 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAre you a complete libertarian on what a parent can do with or to their child? I doubt it.
While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by OdBodI am appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated by evolutionists in public schools to believe in the goo to the zoo to you theory of evolution. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards.
Just watched this and I am absolutely appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards. If you get a chance watch it . The perfect way to prevent a young mind from becoming open, questioning and creative before it has any chance to resist that indoctrination!!!!!!!,
A DNA nail in the coffin of the goo to the zoo to you
http://www.examiner.com/article/a-dna-nail-the-coffin-of-the-goo-to-the-zoo-to-you
Originally posted by OdBodNo I am not defending the Jesus Camp, what I am defending is a parents right to inculcate values in their children. I have not moralised over what those values might be, unlike you who seem to think that you can make it your business. Your attempt to juxtapose a parents right to inculcate values in their children with the Hitler youth is ludicrous.
Yes you are defending jesus camp. Your position would suggest that those parents of say,the Hitler youth or maybe the children suicide bombers had some perverse right to "inculcate" their children and others should not comment.
For example - 'please share your sweets with your friends (inculcating the value of generosity) would of course if we are to follow your hysterical logic be akin to 'please strap on these plastic explosives and detonate yourself at the nearest army checkpoint'.
Is that really what you are saying? if so please unplug yourself from the moon to which you are clearly wired, ASAP.
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by JS357No but that is not what I am claiming despite the near hysterical drama that proceeded to unfold after I championed a parents right to inculcate values in their children. I have not commented at all on what those values may be. Clearly not all values are healthy, never the less, one cannot simply abandon ones child who has little experience of life and leave them bereft of what is acceptable and unacceptable.
Are you a complete libertarian on what a parent can do with or to their child? I doubt it.
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou are frothing at the mouth and becoming hysterical. I have not commented at all on any ethical values, I merely stated that a parent has the right to inculcate values in their children. Its where we learn manners and etiquette from.
We are exactly the same people who say that parents don't get to beat their children,
that they don't get to fake kidnap their 6 year old to teach him about 'stranger danger'***,
they don't get to rape them, ect ect
While there is no [known, and probably existent] perfect way to raise kids, there is an
awful lot we do know about what does and do ...[text shortened]... _slatest/2015/02/06/stranger_danger_kidnapping_denise_kroutil_elizabeth_hupp_arrested_after.html
You and your friend are bitching here against Jesus camp. I cannot say what that is nor am I prepared to defend it never the less what perverted values are the people in Jesus camp inculcating in their children that so ails you?
If find it rather strange that not one of you mention young children feeding their minds of Grand theft Auto 5, where essentially your aim is to be as greedy and as violent as you can, to rob , steal and gangster your way through life, or Call of Duty, Black Opps where your goal is to kill and maim as many persons as possible in an arena of gore and bullets.
and yet Some parents send their kids to Jesus camp (presumably to learn about Jesus) and you crack up? I don't think I fully understand such blatant hypocrisy if I am honest.
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13 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am doing no such thing my logically challenged enemy.
You are frothing at the mouth and becoming hysterical. I have not commented at all on any ethical values, I merely stated that a parent has the right to inculcate values in their children. Its where we learn manners and etiquette from.
You and your friend are bitching here against Jesus camp. I cannot say what that is nor am I prepared to defend ...[text shortened]... esus) and you crack up? I don't think I fully understand such blatant hypocrisy if I am honest.
What you are calling hysteria in your ignorance is a debating and reasoning tactic.
By pointing out that there are extremes where parents are not, and should not, be allowed
to do/say things to their children. We establish the principle that society has the right and
duty to prevent parents from doing such things, and to regulate what parents can and cannot
do with their kids.
The idea is to come up with examples so extreme that even someone as lacking in reasoning
ability as you will accept that in those circumstances the state has cause to intervene.
Thus establishing the principle.
We can then argue about whether this particular instance qualifies as a situation where the
state should intervene.
So, no. Parents do not have an unfettered right to instil their 'values' in their kids.
The reason that we are not talking about kids playing violent games is that;
A, that's not the subject under discussion, there are all kinds of things we aren't talking about because
that's not the topic under discussion.
B, whether you like it or not, there is not as yet any convincing evidence that playing violent computer
games is actually harmful or dangerous, let alone significantly so. Unlike the kids being subjected to these
camps which are known to be harmful both to the kids themselves and society in general.
Originally posted by googlefudgeFine I accept that the state can intervene in cases which may be considered detrimental to a child's well being.
I am doing no such thing my logically challenged enemy.
What you are calling hysteria in your ignorance is a debating and reasoning tactic.
By pointing out that there are extremes where parents are not, and should not, be allowed
to do/say things to their children. We establish the principle that society has the right and
duty to prevent parent ...[text shortened]... these
camps which are known to be harmful both to the kids themselves and society in general.
Then you will tell us what detrimental 'values', the Jesus Camp was instilling in their kids that made you pull the back pockets from your jeans in despair in order that we can make an evaluation as to their suitability or otherwise.
As I stated, a child must take something into their minds and therefore violent computer games is a perfectly acceptable example of a medium which can be used to instil values of some description in a child. The example being used to make a comparison between the values that it espouses and the values which the Jesus camp espouses. Once again so that we can make a comparison and an evaluation. Whether playing computer games is harmful or not is not really the issue, we are simply interested in what kind of values are being portrayed.
I am not logically challenged, but a logic machine and remain capable of rational thought.
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13 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNot hysteria.
I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff - googlefudge
hysteria: psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral functions without an organic basis.
Anger.
Not the same thing.
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13 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Fine I accept that the state can intervene in cases which may be considered detrimental to a child's well being.
Then you will tell us what detrimental 'values', the Jesus Camp was instilling in their kids that made you pull the back pockets from your jeans in despair in order that we can make an evaluation as to their suitability or otherwise.
...[text shortened]... d.
I am not logically challenged, but a logic machine and remain capable of rational thought.
I am not logically challenged, but a logic machine and remain capable of rational thought
All evidence to the contrary.
I am not going to get into a debate as to whether violent computer games, or anything else
you want to bring up, is bad for kids.
The reason being that the topic here is whether or not sending kids to Jesus camp is bad, and
bad enough to warrant any kind of sanction. And that topic can and should be addressed without
reference to anything else that might be bad for kids.
Because otherwise what happens is you throw at us a whole string of things you object to as
being bad/immoral and try to make us talk about all those other things which stops us talking
about the topic at hand.