1. Joined
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    12 Feb '15 21:44
    Just watched this and I am absolutely appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards. If you get a chance watch it . The perfect way to prevent a young mind from becoming open, questioning and creative before it has any chance to resist that indoctrination!!!!!!!,
  2. Joined
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    12 Feb '15 21:50
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Just watched this and I am absolutely appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards. If you get a chance watch it . The perfect way to prevent a young mind from becoming open, questioning and creative before it has any chance to resist that indoctrination!!!!!!!,
    I've seen that program on the lists...

    I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff.

    I have seen clips of similar stuff before and can't comprehend how it's not classified as child abuse.
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    12 Feb '15 22:17
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I've seen that program on the lists...

    I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff.

    I have seen clips of similar stuff before and can't comprehend how it's not classified as child abuse.
    While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
  4. Joined
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    12 Feb '15 22:55
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
    Yes you are defending jesus camp. Your position would suggest that those parents of say,the Hitler youth or maybe the children suicide bombers had some perverse right to "inculcate" their children and others should not comment.
  5. Joined
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    12 Feb '15 23:27
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
    We are exactly the same people who say that parents don't get to beat their children,
    that they don't get to fake kidnap their 6 year old to teach him about 'stranger danger'***,
    they don't get to rape them, ect ect

    While there is no [known, and probably existent] perfect way to raise kids, there is an
    awful lot we do know about what does and does not work. And for things known to be
    harmful, both to the child and to society as a whole, society has an interest in preventing.

    Parents do not always know best, and sometimes they are so bad that they loose the right
    to continue to raise their kids because of the harm they are doing to them.


    *** http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/06/stranger_danger_kidnapping_denise_kroutil_elizabeth_hupp_arrested_after.html
  6. Joined
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    12 Feb '15 23:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    While I am not going to defend Jesus Camp it must be understood that children need to feed their minds on something. Who are you people to say what a parent is and is not allowed to inculcate in their children?
    Are you a complete libertarian on what a parent can do with or to their child? I doubt it.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    13 Feb '15 03:12
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Just watched this and I am absolutely appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards. If you get a chance watch it . The perfect way to prevent a young mind from becoming open, questioning and creative before it has any chance to resist that indoctrination!!!!!!!,
    I am appalled by the way young innocent children are manipulated and indoctrinated by evolutionists in public schools to believe in the goo to the zoo to you theory of evolution. This has got to be abuse by anyones standards.

    A DNA nail in the coffin of the goo to the zoo to you

    http://www.examiner.com/article/a-dna-nail-the-coffin-of-the-goo-to-the-zoo-to-you
  8. Account suspended
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    13 Feb '15 10:281 edit
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Yes you are defending jesus camp. Your position would suggest that those parents of say,the Hitler youth or maybe the children suicide bombers had some perverse right to "inculcate" their children and others should not comment.
    No I am not defending the Jesus Camp, what I am defending is a parents right to inculcate values in their children. I have not moralised over what those values might be, unlike you who seem to think that you can make it your business. Your attempt to juxtapose a parents right to inculcate values in their children with the Hitler youth is ludicrous.

    For example - 'please share your sweets with your friends (inculcating the value of generosity) would of course if we are to follow your hysterical logic be akin to 'please strap on these plastic explosives and detonate yourself at the nearest army checkpoint'.

    Is that really what you are saying? if so please unplug yourself from the moon to which you are clearly wired, ASAP.
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    13 Feb '15 10:32
    Originally posted by JS357
    Are you a complete libertarian on what a parent can do with or to their child? I doubt it.
    No but that is not what I am claiming despite the near hysterical drama that proceeded to unfold after I championed a parents right to inculcate values in their children. I have not commented at all on what those values may be. Clearly not all values are healthy, never the less, one cannot simply abandon ones child who has little experience of life and leave them bereft of what is acceptable and unacceptable.
  10. Account suspended
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    13 Feb '15 10:40
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    We are exactly the same people who say that parents don't get to beat their children,
    that they don't get to fake kidnap their 6 year old to teach him about 'stranger danger'***,
    they don't get to rape them, ect ect

    While there is no [known, and probably existent] perfect way to raise kids, there is an
    awful lot we do know about what does and do ...[text shortened]... _slatest/2015/02/06/stranger_danger_kidnapping_denise_kroutil_elizabeth_hupp_arrested_after.html
    You are frothing at the mouth and becoming hysterical. I have not commented at all on any ethical values, I merely stated that a parent has the right to inculcate values in their children. Its where we learn manners and etiquette from.

    You and your friend are bitching here against Jesus camp. I cannot say what that is nor am I prepared to defend it never the less what perverted values are the people in Jesus camp inculcating in their children that so ails you?

    If find it rather strange that not one of you mention young children feeding their minds of Grand theft Auto 5, where essentially your aim is to be as greedy and as violent as you can, to rob , steal and gangster your way through life, or Call of Duty, Black Opps where your goal is to kill and maim as many persons as possible in an arena of gore and bullets.

    and yet Some parents send their kids to Jesus camp (presumably to learn about Jesus) and you crack up? I don't think I fully understand such blatant hypocrisy if I am honest.
  11. Joined
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    13 Feb '15 11:03
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You are frothing at the mouth and becoming hysterical. I have not commented at all on any ethical values, I merely stated that a parent has the right to inculcate values in their children. Its where we learn manners and etiquette from.

    You and your friend are bitching here against Jesus camp. I cannot say what that is nor am I prepared to defend ...[text shortened]... esus) and you crack up? I don't think I fully understand such blatant hypocrisy if I am honest.
    I am doing no such thing my logically challenged enemy.

    What you are calling hysteria in your ignorance is a debating and reasoning tactic.

    By pointing out that there are extremes where parents are not, and should not, be allowed
    to do/say things to their children. We establish the principle that society has the right and
    duty to prevent parents from doing such things, and to regulate what parents can and cannot
    do with their kids.

    The idea is to come up with examples so extreme that even someone as lacking in reasoning
    ability as you will accept that in those circumstances the state has cause to intervene.

    Thus establishing the principle.

    We can then argue about whether this particular instance qualifies as a situation where the
    state should intervene.



    So, no. Parents do not have an unfettered right to instil their 'values' in their kids.


    The reason that we are not talking about kids playing violent games is that;

    A, that's not the subject under discussion, there are all kinds of things we aren't talking about because
    that's not the topic under discussion.

    B, whether you like it or not, there is not as yet any convincing evidence that playing violent computer
    games is actually harmful or dangerous, let alone significantly so. Unlike the kids being subjected to these
    camps which are known to be harmful both to the kids themselves and society in general.
  12. Account suspended
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    13 Feb '15 11:481 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    I am doing no such thing my logically challenged enemy.

    What you are calling hysteria in your ignorance is a debating and reasoning tactic.

    By pointing out that there are extremes where parents are not, and should not, be allowed
    to do/say things to their children. We establish the principle that society has the right and
    duty to prevent parent ...[text shortened]... these
    camps which are known to be harmful both to the kids themselves and society in general.
    Fine I accept that the state can intervene in cases which may be considered detrimental to a child's well being.

    Then you will tell us what detrimental 'values', the Jesus Camp was instilling in their kids that made you pull the back pockets from your jeans in despair in order that we can make an evaluation as to their suitability or otherwise.

    As I stated, a child must take something into their minds and therefore violent computer games is a perfectly acceptable example of a medium which can be used to instil values of some description in a child. The example being used to make a comparison between the values that it espouses and the values which the Jesus camp espouses. Once again so that we can make a comparison and an evaluation. Whether playing computer games is harmful or not is not really the issue, we are simply interested in what kind of values are being portrayed.

    I am not logically challenged, but a logic machine and remain capable of rational thought.
  13. Account suspended
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    13 Feb '15 11:54
    I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff - googlefudge

    hysteria: psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral functions without an organic basis.
  14. Joined
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    13 Feb '15 12:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I'm not going to watch it because I think it might make me break stuff - googlefudge

    hysteria: psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral functions without an organic basis.
    Not hysteria.

    Anger.

    Not the same thing.
  15. Joined
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    13 Feb '15 12:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Fine I accept that the state can intervene in cases which may be considered detrimental to a child's well being.

    Then you will tell us what detrimental 'values', the Jesus Camp was instilling in their kids that made you pull the back pockets from your jeans in despair in order that we can make an evaluation as to their suitability or otherwise.
    ...[text shortened]... d.

    I am not logically challenged, but a logic machine and remain capable of rational thought.
    I am not logically challenged, but a logic machine and remain capable of rational thought


    All evidence to the contrary.



    I am not going to get into a debate as to whether violent computer games, or anything else
    you want to bring up, is bad for kids.

    The reason being that the topic here is whether or not sending kids to Jesus camp is bad, and
    bad enough to warrant any kind of sanction. And that topic can and should be addressed without
    reference to anything else that might be bad for kids.

    Because otherwise what happens is you throw at us a whole string of things you object to as
    being bad/immoral and try to make us talk about all those other things which stops us talking
    about the topic at hand.
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