@KingDavid403 saidHe was indeed, but the reference in John doesn't equate him to God, but differentiate him from God as having godly qualities; at not point did Jesus claim to be God.
There is a lecture some Muslim scholars give on the point in support of their position that Jesus is subservient to God.
Well, He was while in the flesh; don't you think?
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@medullah said[John 14:7-11 NKJV] 7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." 8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
He was indeed, but the reference in John doesn't equate him to God, but differentiate him from God as having godly qualities; at not point did Jesus claim to be God.
Sounds like Jesus is claiming to be God the Father here; along with being the Son of God. The three are the One and only God. God is Spirit; that's scripture. how can a spirit be divided?
We receive the Holy Spirit when saved. Is God just giving us a little piece of His Spirit when saved? Or, does it fill us like fresh air coming into a building with an open window?
I just want to be clear here that I am learning always also; I am not claiming to know it all that's for-sure. I am a Oneness believer.
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@KingDavid403
No that's fair enough KD.
It's often said of sons and their fathers "A chip of the old block".
Jesus was pointing out that his father's qualities were reflected in himslef.
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@medullah saidJesus was pointing out that his Father's qualities were reflected in Himself.
@KingDavid403
No that's fair enough KD.
It's often said of sons and their fathers "A chip of the old block".
Jesus was pointing out that his father's qualities were reflected in himslef.
" I am in the Father and the Father is in Me."
I don't know; sounds like Oneness to me. They are of the same Holy Spirit which is God; the One God.
Colossians 1:16-17:
"For in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
Hebrews 1:3:
"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power."
Revelation 1:8:
"“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”"
@KingDavid403
Which scripture did you have in mind that proves that the holy spirit is God?
in the case of Jesus has was actually created
Clo 1:15 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
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@medullah said[John 4:24 NKJV] 24 "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
@KingDavid403
Which scripture did you have in mind that proves that the holy spirit is God?
in the case of Jesus has was actually created
Clo 1:15 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
[Psalms 143:10 NKJV] 10 Teach me to do Your will, For You [are] my God; Your Spirit [is] good. Lead me in the land of uprightness.
[Isiah 61:1 NKJV] 1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to [those who are] bound;
[Luke 1:35 NKJV] 35 And the angel answered and said to her, "[The] Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
[Romans 8:9 NKJV] 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
[1Colossians 2:11 NKJV] 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
[1John 4:2 NKJV] 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
Acts 5:3-4:
Peter tells Ananias that he has lied "not to man but to God," implying that lying to the Holy Spirit is the same as lying to God. This indicates that the Holy Spirit is God.
Romans 8:9-11:
Paul writes that those who are in the flesh are not in the Spirit, but those who are in the Spirit are in God. This passage equates the Holy Spirit with God's presence and dwelling within believers.
1 Corinthians 3:16:
Paul writes that Christians are temples of God, and the Spirit of God dwells within them, further associating the Holy Spirit with God's presence.
Genesis 1:2:
The Spirit of God is said to be hovering over the waters at the creation, demonstrating the Holy Spirit's involvement in God's creative work.
John 14:26:
Jesus states that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, will teach believers all things, suggesting the Holy Spirit's role as a source of divine knowledge and truth.
In essence, these passages and others demonstrate that the Holy Spirit:
Acts as a direct expression of God's presence and power.
Is attributed with God's divine attributes, such as omnipotence (all-powerful) and omniscience (all-knowing).
Is intimately involved in God's work, including creation, revelation, and guidance.
"The Three are One."
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@KingDavid403
Thanks for the research, I appreciate your time and industry.
Although they are all good scriptures, none of them demonstrates that the holy spirit is part of a godhead/trinity.
Paul defines God at 1 Cor 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."
The scriptures tell us that Jesus is "The Son of God". No scripture actually says that Jesus is either God or God The Son.
When I bump into stuff like this I wonder about the parable at Matt 13:25 if it's all part of an attempt to divide us? At some point Christians have got to work on what they have in common (if that's possible) ?
How well do you know the Book of Daniel? What are your thoughts on who the various segments of the statue is at Dan 2:44?
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@medullah said[Dan 2:44 NKJV] 44 "And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
@KingDavid403
Thanks for the research, I appreciate your time and industry.
Although they are all good scriptures, none of them demonstrates that the holy spirit is part of a godhead/trinity.
Paul defines God at 1 Cor 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through who ...[text shortened]... the Book of Daniel? What are your thoughts on who the various segments of the statue is at Dan 2:44?
You go first. 🙂 I usually don't discuss or debate Prophecies.
To me, it seems to be the Kingdom of God.
Although they are all good scriptures, none of them demonstrates that the holy spirit is part of a godhead/trinity.
I'm not a trinitarian; I'm a oneness believer. There is One God and that's scripture. However, most churches I've attended are trinitarian; and, they teach and believe that the Holy Spirit of God is the third part of the trinity. What say you? Who's the third part of the trinity to you?
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You go round in circles with the trinity debate. You either beleive it or you don't. I understnad the teaching, which is Father/Son/Holy Ghost. I beleive in all three but not as represented by the Nicene Creed.;
Daniel is the frist book that really gets it's teeth into the time of the end of this system (not the world, just the way that it's being run).
I like the scripture that you have quoted as it shows that The Kingdom isn't something ary fairy, but will have teeth.
Danel tells nebuchadnezzer that the head of that statue is Babylon (so we have a start). Do you (or anyone else its an open discussion) have any thoughts on who the silver (chest and arms) part of the statue might be?
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@medullah saidYou go round in circles with the trinity debate.
You go round in circles with the trinity debate. You either beleive it or you don't. I understnad the teaching, which is Father/Son/Holy Ghost. I beleive in all three but not as represented by the Nicene Creed.;
Daniel is the frist book that really gets it's teeth into the time of the end of this system (not the world, just the way that it's being run).
I like the scri ...[text shortened]... n open discussion) have any thoughts on who the silver (chest and arms) part of the statue might be?
No, I do not; I'm clearly a oneness believer. Who is the third part of the trinity to you? You seem to be dodging this question. Are you a trinitarian?
I beleive in all three but not as represented by the Nicene Creed.;
Same here, please explain your beliefs.
@KingDavid403 saidApologies - my unfortunate use of the term "you" wasn't aimed at you specifiaclly or our conversation, I was generalising, in as much that when two or more people debate the trinity it can go backwards and forwards (or round in circles). My comments were not intended as a criticism of you but as an obserbation of the discussion, somewaht akin to a regulalry played chess position?
You go round in circles with the trinity debate.
No, I do not; I'm clearly a oneness believer. Who is the third part of the trinity to you? You seem to be dodging this question. Are you a trinitarian?
I beleive in all three but not as represented by the Nicene Creed.;
Same here, please explain your beliefs.
My beleifs are a bit of a hotch potch. I would self identify as a JW, but with a caution, in that I am a bit of a free thinker and so don't align with all of the teachings. You can't assume that because Glaveston thinks in a certain way that will automatically be the same, though I would think that i do in most cases.
So I am a unitarian. I beleive in The Father and that he has a name Jehovah (hallowed by they name Matt 6:9 Psalm 83:18). His son is referred to commonly as Jesus, but the true name was probably closer in rendition to "Yeshua", a variation that i personally prefer.
I believe in a heaven where some are raised to on death, though the majority will be resurrected on earth (Math 5:5 Psalm 37:11). The earth is in such a bad state becasue of who controls it (1 john 5:19).
I don't think that one sect/denomination has the whole picture but that we can all learn from eachother, and that Christians have got to start talking and take a good look at each themselves. I won't go into each and every teaching, you are welcome to ask though.