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Originally posted by RJHindsYes, but please, for the love of God, let it be His truth, and not your truth. Let Him achieve His ends through His means, and not apologize for it by saying, "well, this is what the Bible really means", when, clearly, you don't know. Despite what you claim, the Bible doesn't tell us everything.
I am just not one that believes the end is justified by the means. I believe we must attempt to the best of our ability to teach the word of truth in all things to the best of our ability.
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsIn short, no, it doesn't; yes, it is.
The problem with evolution, as it is normally presented in its fullness, is that it contradicts the word of God and turns people away from belief in God. The complete theory of evolution is not compatible with Christianity.
Sure, one can ignore those parts of the evolution theory and those parts of the Holy Bible that are in conflict and still accept Christ. However, I don't see how we can honestly advocate such an approach.
The Instructor
The conflict only arises in the mind of people like you. Those who continue to constrict God to a little box of their own making.
Just stop it.
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The problem with evolution, as it is normally presented in its fullness, is that it contradicts the word of God and turns people away from belief in God. The complete theory of evolution is not compatible with Christianity.
But suppose a person spends 15 years of hard study of theology and biology. He increases his knowledge two fold, then three fold, then four fold. And after 15 years his knowledge has so encreased as to be able to thoroughly discuss all the problems with Evolution , but he never asks the Person of Jesus into his heart.
His knowledge will not save him.
Though he be able to crush any living scientist is a debate about the weaknesses of Evolution, his extensive knowledge will not do him any good before God.
This needs to be said. When you came to know the Lord Jesus, were you that knowledgeable about biology ? He did not receive you on the basis of your ability to disprove evolution even to yourself.
Sure, one can ignore those parts of the evolution theory and those parts of the Holy Bible that are in conflict and still accept Christ. However, I don't see how we can honestly advocate such an approach.
Look carefully at the lyrics of this famous and appropriate Gospel Hymn. I only ask you to consider the need to come to the living Person of Christ as you are -
Just as I am, without one plea,
But that Thy blood was shed for me.
And that Thou bid'st me come to Thee.
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
Just as I am, and waiting not
To rid my soul of one dark blot;
To Thee whose blood can cleanse each spot,
O Lamb of God I come, I come!
You see it is not his knowledge level of science that separates the sinner from God. It is his sins which have caused a separation between him and God. He needs the redemptive blood of Christ to remove the barrier to fellowship with a holy and righteous God.
"Just as I am, though tossed about
With many a conflict, many a doubt;
Fightings within and fears without,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!
You have many doubts about this issue or that issue ? Still COME to the Lamb of God, Jesus, just as you are - fightings within and fears without.
"Just as I am, poor, wretched, blind;
Sight, riches, healing of the mind;
Yes, ALL I NEED, in Thee to find,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!
Just as I am, Thou wilt receive,
Wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve;
Because Thy promise I believe,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!
He will welcome us with our misunderstandings, our ignorance.
He will pardon our sins, cleanse us of our faults and give profound peace within, even with our erroneous concepts about science or so-called science.
"Just as I am, Thy love unknown
Has broken every barrier down;
Now, to be Thine, yea, Thine alone,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!
The author of this classic hymn had a true realization of the seeking sinner's need to come to Jesus just as he or she is.
Originally posted by wolfgang59I have no problem with Evolution as a Christian. I believe, and I accept. One does not pre-empt the other.
The complete Theory of Evolution may not be compatible with your Christianity.
You have no mandate to speak on behalf of all Christians
But I'm not as narrow-minded as some.
Originally posted by sonshipIn church, I mean during service on Sunday, you can often tell those people who are taking the words of a hymn to heart versus those who are only singing a song. I've seen people singing to a hymn with tears in their eyes. I smile and rejoice in these people who can truly feel God moving in them.The problem with evolution, as it is normally presented in its fullness, is that it contradicts the word of God and turns people away from belief in God. The complete theory of evolution is not compatible with Christianity.
But suppose a person spends 15 years of hard study of theology and biology. He increases his knowledge two fol ...[text shortened]... ssic hymn a true realization of the seeking sinner's need to come to Jesus just as he or she is.
Originally posted by SuzianneYour spirit can taste the difference. You probably spiritually discern reality from performance.
In church, I mean during service on Sunday, you can often tell those people who are taking the words of a hymn to heart versus those who are only singing a song. I've seen people singing to a hymn with tears in their eyes. I smile and rejoice in these people who can truly feel God moving in them.
This is something deeper than emotions. This is your spiritual sense that can discern the spirits of others.
"Deep calls unto deep, at the noise of Your waterspouts." (Psalm 42:7)
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Originally posted by sonshipAmen! That's what I've been trying to tell a lot of theists lately. The conflict between religion and science is artificial and it is perfectly possible for a theist or Christian to believe in evolution without violating the tenets of their faith.
This thread is for the purpose of proving that there is no requirement in the New Testament to take a particular stance on Evolution before one can have salvation.
Had God waited until I was skeptical of evolution before I met the Lord Jesus I might have never asked Him to take me to Himself.
Jesus did not wait for me to be well versed in any aspect ...[text shortened]... one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him.
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(You would also think the evolution-fighters would realize that the NT writing started around 90 BCE and Origin of Species came nearly 18 centuries later, so there is no way the NT writers could have taken a position on evolution, but I digress.)
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Originally posted by SuzianneI never said the Holy Bible tells us everything. Even the apostle John wrote...
Yes, but please, for the love of God, let it be His truth, and not your truth. Let Him achieve His ends through His means, and not apologize for it by saying, "well, this is what the Bible really means", when, clearly, you don't know. Despite what you claim, the Bible doesn't tell us everything.
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
(John 21:25 NKJV)
And that is just about Jesus. But let us not believe science tells us everything either.
The Instructor
Originally posted by sonshipI am not suggesting that people substitute the knowledge of the contradictions of evilution and the scriptures for the knowledge of Christ and accepting Him into their hearts as Lord and savior.The problem with evolution, as it is normally presented in its fullness, is that it contradicts the word of God and turns people away from belief in God. The complete theory of evolution is not compatible with Christianity.
But suppose a person spends 15 years of hard study of theology and biology. He increases his knowledge two fol ...[text shortened]... hymn had a true realization of the seeking sinner's need to come to Jesus just as he or she is.
Certainly, I believed and put my faith and trust in Christ's saving grace before learning so much about evilution. But some on this website have been taught the deception of evilution and believe and put their faith and trust in this substitute belief of atheism. Therefore, I believe they will not be receptive to the truth of Christ without an overthrow of their false belief in atheism which is supported by the myth of evilution.
How is it possible to reach an atheist with the truth of Christ when they think they already have the truth that is proved by the theory of evilution?
For these atheists it must be shown that the science of evilution is not evidence against the existence of God. They must come to realize that creation makes more sense of the available data and that it is very likely that a supernatural spiritual being like God does exit.
These atheist only believe in a natural world without miracles and so the preaching of the gospel of Christ is foolishness. Their current worldview is that they can explain everything without the need for God. They believe the only salvation for man will come from their own efforts and abilities to gain the required knowledge through science.
Our goal of bringing the lost to the knowledge of Christ is the same. It is only our methods that are different. I don't think we can ignore the so-called science of man and only preach the gospel of Christ during these times.
The Instructor
Originally posted by caissad4I guess you can become a Roman Catholic Christian if you wish. I object to some of the Roman Catholic beliefs as do many other Christian denominations. I believe in the Trinity doctrine of the One God in the persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I also believe in the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin as the burial cloth of Christ. However, I do not believe in the infallibility of the Pope, nor do I believe in the theory of evilution, if that is one of their beliefs.
That has been the position of the Catholic Church since the 1960's.
The Instructor