1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 15:25
    I posted this in the Abortion thread and would like some dialogue from those who insist that a human being exists from the moment of conception:

    http://www.armyofgod.com/JamesKopp.html

    To wit: Abortionists murder helpless babies. Abortionists do not deserve legal protection.

    Are the authorities who are only doing their job, keeping the abortion mills opened so babies can be killed, any different than the German Nazi guards who were only doing THEIR job keeping the ovens and gas chambers open so Jews could be killed?

    Why should the safety of Dr. Slepian [doctor murdered by James Kopp] be put over the safety of unborn children?"

    I'll post a few hypothethicals in the next post.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 15:50
    OK, remember that these examples take as a given that a human being/person exists from the moment of conception.


    1) KellyTay is walking down the street and sees Woman A about to plunge a dagger into the head of one month old Baby B. He pulls a gun out and shoots Woman A, killing her but saving the life of Baby A.

    Moral or immoral act?

    2) KellyTay finds out his pregnant neighbor is about to get an abortion. He waits for her outside the abortion clinic and right before she enters on the day of her appointment, puts a gun to her head and abducts her. He then holds her in his basement until she gives birth to a healthy baby. KellyTay has thus saved the "life" of the unborn "baby".

    Moral or immoral act?
  3. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 15:56
    3) IvanBlo finds out that a deranged school bus driver is going to drive his bus off a 1000 foot clift, killing all 50 six year olds on the bus. He gains this knowledge (which is accurate) just before the driver is about to start the engine of the bus. He shoots the bus driver, killing him but saving the lives of the 50 six year olds.

    Moral or immoral act?

    4) Ivanblo's neighbor Dr. Slepian is on the phone with him from the Dr's kitchen. Dr. S says: "Boy, I have a busy week; I have to perform 50 abortions by Friday!"(which is true). Ivanblo pulls out a high powered rifle and shoots Dr. Slepian, killing him but saving the "lives" of 50 unborn "babies".

    Moral or immoral act?
  4. CA, USA
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    18 Feb '07 15:57
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    OK, remember that these examples take as a given that a human being/person exists from the moment of conception.


    1) KellyTay is walking down the street and sees Woman A about to plunge a dagger into the head of one month old Baby B. He pulls a gun out and shoots Woman A, killing her but saving the life of Baby A.

    Moral or immoral act?

    2) Kelly ...[text shortened]... lthy baby. KellyTay has thus saved the "life" of the unborn "baby".

    Moral or immoral act?
    1.) Moral .. and timely, but he better have a license to carry a conceled weapon
    2.) A crime, therefore immoral IMO
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 16:01
    5) Halsahammer finds out that Muhummad Atta and a few associates are about to take over the plane that they are both on and crash it into a Children's Hospital, killing thousands of infants. Halsahammer performs his marital arts skills on the would be hijackers, killing them but saving the lives of thousands of children.

    Moral or immoral act?

    6) Halsahammer lives down the street from the only abortion clinic in his state which performs thousands of abortions per year. He plants a bomb in the abortion clinic, destroying it and killing 5 staff members but saving the "lives" of thousands of unborn "babies".

    Moral or immoral act?
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 16:02
    Originally posted by jammer
    1.) Moral .. and timely, but he better have a license to carry a conceled weapon
    2.) A crime, therefore immoral IMO
    So you believe that all laws are moral by virtue of being laws?
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    18 Feb '07 16:25
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    3) IvanBlo finds out that a deranged school bus driver is going to drive his bus off a 1000 foot clift, killing all 50 six year olds on the bus. He gains this knowledge (which is accurate) just before the driver is about to start the engine of the bus. He shoots the bus driver, killing him but saving the lives of the 50 six year olds.

    Moral or immoral ...[text shortened]... pian, killing him but saving the "lives" of 50 unborn "babies".

    Moral or immoral act?
    3.) moral act

    4.) murder
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    18 Feb '07 16:26
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    5) Halsahammer finds out that Muhummad Atta and a few associates are about to take over the plane that they are both on and crash it into a Children's Hospital, killing thousands of infants. Halsahammer performs his marital arts skills on the would be hijackers, killing them but saving the lives of thousands of children.

    Moral or immoral act?

    6) Ha ...[text shortened]... ff members but saving the "lives" of thousands of unborn "babies".

    Moral or immoral act?
    5.) moral act

    6.) murder
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 16:27
    Originally posted by jammer
    3.) moral act

    4.) murder
    Some reasoning would be appreciated; this isn't the SAT.
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    18 Feb '07 16:27
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So you believe that all laws are moral by virtue of being laws?
    no
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    18 Feb '07 16:28
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Some reasoning would be appreciated; this isn't the SAT.
    pretty straight forward .. it is what it is.

    Those aren't essay questions IMO

    moral or immoral? .. simple
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 16:32
    Originally posted by jammer
    pretty straight forward .. it is what it is.

    Those aren't essay questions IMO

    moral or immoral? .. simple
    Well thanks for your well-thought out replies. Obviously they never made you show your work in elementary school.
  13. CA, USA
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    18 Feb '07 16:351 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Well thanks for your well-thought out replies. Obviously they never made you show your work in elementary school.
    straight A's

    My answers are thought out over a lifetime .. your questions are simple cut and paste from some freshman Law text.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Feb '07 16:44
    Originally posted by jammer
    straight A's

    My answers are thought out over a lifetime .. your questions are simple cut and paste from some freshman Law text.
    They're my own creation.

    I asked for a dialogue and so far there hasn't been one. Your answers are "Cuz I say so".
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    18 Feb '07 18:22
    Originally posted by jammer
    3.) moral act

    4.) murder
    Murder is a legal term #1 can correct here if I’m wrong, but as I understand how it works when it comes to laws:

    You legalize killing people or put up rules on when it is okay to do, it will than be the rules surrounding the killing that will make it murder or not.

    So it will depend the laws of the land at the time both could be murder, both being moral or not is a different question.

    Nothing about either set of choices do I find appealing from the name used in the example or the killing or abortion, but to answer the question in my opinion.

    1. I'd call a moral act, protecting the child from immediate harm is justified.
    2. I'd call immoral, all of it sad.
    Kelly
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