10 Mar '08 22:21>
We know the timelines of thousands of people who are now dead. We know the choices they made and the directions their lives took. We can see it all laid out in front of us.
We know what Alexander the Great will do with his life , we know his life choices and in a very real way we know what future choices he will make through his life.
Ok , so if his choices were free choices or determined choices how would we know the difference? His timeline might look the same either way. There's no way we can say for certain that because Alexander came to power then it was inevitable and determined that he came to power.
Why can we not say this? It's because if Alexander had a potentially different future that was possible then we would not know anything about it. If he had no potentially different future then we also would not know either.
The results that history gives us only tell us what happened , but they cannot be conclusive either way as to whether these events were inevitable. In a sense we know what Alexander's future holds for him. We could say that because Alexander came to power then it was always going to happen. But we could also say that maybe he might have also been anonymous just as easily.
So we know all these timelines and historical figures but there is no proof in the world we can draw from this knowledge. We cannot say "ah but if alexander had had free will then things would look different " because there is only one alexander and how would they look different? What would be the difference between a history riddled with free will and a determined history? If there was a difference we could not know it because we have no comparison , there is only one history we can know - and that's what happened -free or otherwise.
My point is that God being eternal and outside time knows our timelines. To him our lives are history already. So what? This proves nothing . If I am free to choose my future he is bound to know it because he is not in the same position as me in time. Whatever Alexander had chosen to do (if he had free will) I was always going to know his future because of my position in time in relation to him. But me simply knowing what he did proves nothing. God knows my timeline , I know Alexander's timeline. God was always going to know my future whatever I do. I can choose A B C or X but nothing will prevent Him knowing my future. Nothing could have prevented me from knowing Alexander's future either. He could have done numerous things with his life but the result was always going to be that I would know his future. It had nothing to do with determinism and I did not need to foresee his actions in any way. My relationship to him in time gave me an advantage and this advantage says nothing about whether he had free will or not. He may not have done but my knowing proves nothing at all. So why does God knowing my timeline prove that I can't have free will?
We know what Alexander the Great will do with his life , we know his life choices and in a very real way we know what future choices he will make through his life.
Ok , so if his choices were free choices or determined choices how would we know the difference? His timeline might look the same either way. There's no way we can say for certain that because Alexander came to power then it was inevitable and determined that he came to power.
Why can we not say this? It's because if Alexander had a potentially different future that was possible then we would not know anything about it. If he had no potentially different future then we also would not know either.
The results that history gives us only tell us what happened , but they cannot be conclusive either way as to whether these events were inevitable. In a sense we know what Alexander's future holds for him. We could say that because Alexander came to power then it was always going to happen. But we could also say that maybe he might have also been anonymous just as easily.
So we know all these timelines and historical figures but there is no proof in the world we can draw from this knowledge. We cannot say "ah but if alexander had had free will then things would look different " because there is only one alexander and how would they look different? What would be the difference between a history riddled with free will and a determined history? If there was a difference we could not know it because we have no comparison , there is only one history we can know - and that's what happened -free or otherwise.
My point is that God being eternal and outside time knows our timelines. To him our lives are history already. So what? This proves nothing . If I am free to choose my future he is bound to know it because he is not in the same position as me in time. Whatever Alexander had chosen to do (if he had free will) I was always going to know his future because of my position in time in relation to him. But me simply knowing what he did proves nothing. God knows my timeline , I know Alexander's timeline. God was always going to know my future whatever I do. I can choose A B C or X but nothing will prevent Him knowing my future. Nothing could have prevented me from knowing Alexander's future either. He could have done numerous things with his life but the result was always going to be that I would know his future. It had nothing to do with determinism and I did not need to foresee his actions in any way. My relationship to him in time gave me an advantage and this advantage says nothing about whether he had free will or not. He may not have done but my knowing proves nothing at all. So why does God knowing my timeline prove that I can't have free will?