1. Cape Town
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    18 Jan '12 08:03
    I have noticed that some theists seem to think that life has some magical property that can only come from God. There have been a number of comments suggesting that 'life from non-life' is not only impossible but somehow self evidently ludicrous.

    I think such thinking has some major flaws, not least of which is a lack of understanding of grey definitions and the dangers of making absolute claims about things that are loosely defined.

    So, to demonstrate what I am talking about here, can someone who believes that life can never come from non-life, tell me:
    1. How do you define life?
    2. Can virus' come from non-life?
    3. Can computer virus' come from non-life?
    4. Can prions come from non-life?
    5. Can self replicating molecules such as RNA come from non-life?
    6. If a cell is dismantled is it still 'life'?
    6. If man put together parts of a cell that had been dismantled and it 'lives', has he made life from non-life? If not, why not?
    7. Is a multicellular organism 'life' as a whole, or only the individual cells. Is a bit of your skin that you scrape off, but still has living human cells 'life'? At what point can it be declared 'dead' or 'non-life'?
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    18 Jan '12 14:511 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have noticed that some theists seem to think that life has some magical property that can only come from God. There have been a number of comments suggesting that 'life from non-life' is not only impossible but somehow self evidently ludicrous.

    I think such thinking has some major flaws, not least of which is a lack of understanding of grey definitio iving human cells 'life'? At what point can it be declared 'dead' or 'non-life'?
    you forgot to add, mud water and a reducing atmosphere, oh and some lightning and a chance occurrence of something in the region of,

    1X10^000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  3. Joined
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    18 Jan '12 15:02
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you forgot to add, mud water and a reducing atmosphere, oh and some lightning and a chance occurrence of something in the region of,

    1X10^000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    Well I agree with your chance of occurring...
    I just don't think you appreciate that what you wrote is a very long winded way of writing 1...
    ie certainty.
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    18 Jan '12 15:09
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Well I agree with your chance of occurring...
    I just don't think you appreciate that what you wrote is a very long winded way of writing 1...
    ie certainty.
    LOL.

    I thought the whole OP was a long winded way of saying "Damn if I know !"
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    18 Jan '12 15:10
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Well I agree with your chance of occurring...
    I just don't think you appreciate that what you wrote is a very long winded way of writing 1...
    ie certainty.
    ha ha ha, even I spotted this.
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    18 Jan '12 15:14
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you forgot to add, mud water and a reducing atmosphere, oh and some lightning and a chance occurrence of something in the region of,

    1X10^000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    Just how did you do to invent this kind of number?
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    18 Jan '12 15:21
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    ha ha ha, even I spotted this.
    Yes but unlike robbie you are scientifically literate.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    18 Jan '12 15:39
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Just how did you do to invent this kind of number?
    Oh, you mean the famous multi-digit zero?

    Hehehehe...
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    18 Jan '12 15:41
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Oh, you mean the famous multi-digit zero?

    Hehehehe...
    Yes, let's laugh at him together. Hehehehe...
  10. Cape Town
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    18 Jan '12 16:29
    Originally posted by jaywill
    LOL.

    I thought the whole OP was a long winded way of saying "Damn if I know !"
    Yes. I cannot define life concretely. Without such a definition, you cannot make concrete claims about it. I do not know how life started, because I do not know what life is. I know 'life' usually refers to is a class of complex chemical reactions, but I don't know what makes them special, or what determines when one reaction is life and one is not.
  11. Cape Town
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    18 Jan '12 16:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you forgot to add, mud water and a reducing atmosphere, oh and some lightning and a chance occurrence of something in the region of,

    1X10^000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    Huh? How does that relate to anything I said?
  12. Standard membermenace71
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    18 Jan '12 17:441 edit
    I like to say or think of it this way: How can Something come from Absolutely nothing?

    To me I just can't believe the whole universe came into being from absolutely nothing.

    We are sententious (is that the right word) of ourselves but ahhh never mind better think longer 🙂

    Manny
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    18 Jan '12 18:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you forgot to add, mud water and a reducing atmosphere, oh and some lightning and a chance occurrence of something in the region of,

    1X10^000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    This, corrected, is called the argument from incredulity. It is gussied up with zeros.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity
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    18 Jan '12 18:32
    Originally posted by menace71
    I like to say or think of it this way: How can Something come from Absolutely nothing?

    To me I just can't believe the whole universe came into being from absolutely nothing.

    We are sententious (is that the right word) of ourselves but ahhh never mind better think longer 🙂

    Manny
    Yet, this is what creationists believe in. The the whole Universe was created from nothing. But that is religion, not science, of course.
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    18 Jan '12 18:52
    Originally posted by menace71
    I like to say or think of it this way: How can Something come from Absolutely nothing?

    To me I just can't believe the whole universe came into being from absolutely nothing.

    We are sententious (is that the right word) of ourselves but ahhh never mind better think longer 🙂

    Manny
    The only people who think something can come from nothing are creationists.
    Things puffed into existence by their god... including sometimes their god itself.

    Scientists never make that claim.

    The point about trying to go back in time past the big bang is that GR currently puts a
    singularity in the way, a point where all the laws of physics don't work.

    Many/most current cosmologists thing that there probably was something before the
    big bang, and that singularities don't exist, but the hypotheses that can cope with such
    concepts are not tested yet.

    Thus sciences current answer to where our bit of the universe came from is '... Don't know'
    This doesn't mean the answer is 'can't know' or 'will never know', just simply that at present
    we don't know.

    This doesn't mean however that you can legitimately just make up what you think happened.
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