Matthew 18

Originally posted by Agerg
Well I'll see your "I'm a dink" and raise you
you're a *habahaskijambles*

You mentioned your god tortures people all the time; and so I, like many rational and morally transcendent-over-*your*-"God"[hidden]and yes I do assert *my* morals are superior to *your* "God", or to put it another way, *my* morals are superior to the ancient human inventors o ...[text shortened]... ment? A God, who doesn't torture people for eternity, is worse than one who does??? 😕

Jesus, Mary and saint Joseph Agerg. Will you lighten up?

The business about god being the "biggest" dick was pure sarcasm.

How can you be so serious and make a case out of it?

"Your conception of this God entity is far from sophisticated anyway,.."

Yes. My conception of God is unsophisticated, but your conception of a non-existent entity is. 🙄

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Matthew 18
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://fc03.deviantar ...[text shortened]...

This seems to be a very clear statement that God actively tortures people. Anyone disagree?

Get thee hence, thou tax collecting Pagan. 😛

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Matthew 18
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://fc03.deviantar ...[text shortened]...

This seems to be a very clear statement that God actively tortures people. Anyone disagree?

He meant the local church.

He meant the church that is practical enough for a few believers to take their problem to.

The normal practice for the establishment of a church is one city for one church.
All the churches in the New Testament were therefore named for cities.

Ie. The church is Jerusalem
The church in Antioch
The church in Phillippi
The church is Colossia
The church in Thessalonika.

Christianity has degraded from this practice. But there is a recovery of it going on as well.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Matthew 18
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://fc03.deviantar ...[text shortened]...

This seems to be a very clear statement that God actively tortures people. Anyone disagree?

erased. misunderstood.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Matthew 18
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://fc03.deviantar ...[text shortened]...

This seems to be a very clear statement that God actively tortures people. Anyone disagree?

You seem to mix two rather distinct portions of Matt. 18.

The first portions is about Christian believers dealing with a troublesome member of the local church. The instructions of Jesus how to deal with that situation really concludes in verse 20, I think.:

"Again, truly I say to you that if two of you are in harmony on earth converning any matter for which they ask, it will be done for them from My Father who is in the heavens.

For where there are two or three gathered into My name, there am I in their midst."
" (Matt. 18:19,20)

Jesus is talking about the harmonious and authroitative prayer to recover the troublesome brother in the church who is acting like a virtual outsider. You should not assume that the prayer of the brothers for the troublesome one are only destructive. Prayers in harmony that such a won would repent and be recovered are also implied there.

Now after verse 21 is Peter asking Jesus how many times should he as a disciple, forgive another Christian brother who has offended him.

In that answer to that question Jesus gives the parable and teaching of the king settling accounts with his slaves starting from verse 23. This can be called the parable of the unforgiving servant, for example.

The King represents Jesus Christ, who will return and settle accounts with His servants as a King.

The conclusion of that parable contains a warning that the one who would not forgive his fellow servant, even though he was forgiven, will be handed over to the tormenters:

"And his master [representing Christ] became angry and delivered him to the torturers, until he would repay all that was owed.

So also will My heavenly Father do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from your hearts." (verse 34,35)

Briefly then, what does it mean ?

1.) Some Christians will be punished by Jesus after the second coming. "So also will My heavenly Father do to you ..."

2.) Such punishment is temporary "UNTIL ... he would repay ..."
It is correctional punishment. It is diciplinary punishment which is temporary.
This is not eternal retribution. This is discipline to improve the character.

3.) The torturers are probably angels and not humans.

4.) Yes, it does indicate that the Heavenly Father will cause pain to some believers if they do not learn to forgive their fellow Christian brothers from their heart.

5.) This is not eternal perdition. The words "until he would repay what was owed"

6.) The teaching is not about Catholic Purgatory because the discipline is administered AFTER the servant comes before his master. This should mean it is a punishment AFTER the second coming of Christ.

It is therefore a punishment during the millennial reign of Christ and before the eternal age. (See Revelation 20).

.) The net effect of the teaching really is this:

Christ will not tolerate any division or ungforgiveness between those who are rewarded to reign with Him in the kingdom after His return.

If two Christians have a problem of offense between them either one will be kept out or both will be kept out of the kingdom. They will be kept out at least until someone learns a lesson.

Two Christians who have an unbforgiven matter between them will not both enter into the kingdom. Either both will be kept out or one will be kept out.

There will only be harmony between those rewarded to be in His kingdom. He will not tolerate grudges, unforgiven offenses, bad feelings toward another Christian brother.

The Lord Jesus will only have harmony and forgiveness among the saints priviledged to enjoy His thousand year reign.

10.) Lastly, I do not think it is possible for any sinner to pay back Christ for what He has done. What he owed should be what he owed in terms of forgiving the other offending party from his heart.

The teaching should not be taken that any sinner can possibly reimburse the Son of God for His death for thier sins on the cross.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Matthew 18
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

http://fc03.deviantar ...[text shortened]...

This seems to be a very clear statement that God actively tortures people. Anyone disagree?

Well if God forgives everything and holds nothing against us when we are
forgiven, what do you think He will do to those that He does hold accountable
for their sins?
Kelly