Matthew 24

So we have Christ saying two men will be working in the field. One is taken in rapture and one is left. What is the difference ?

The difference is in their moment by moment living. It is not in a doctrinal matter, or a matter of being nominally or culturally or casually being identified as Christians. It is their moment by moment living.

Two woman are grinding at a mill. One will be taken in rapture and one will be left. In the taking care of their daily legitimate responsibilities there must be a difference in their heart. One is living in the presence of Christ.

The Lord was wise. In a parallel passage in Luke it says two men will be asleep on a bed. One is taken and one is left. Why ?

Apparently, even in SLEEPING, the Lord Jesus looks for the lover of Him to be in His presence. Some degree of self control in the Holy Spirit must even effect his thought life while he is sleeping.

Working in the field, grinding at a mill, and sleeping on a bed, Christ will come suddenly some day and make a statement to the rest of the world -

ie. "With these Christians I am pleased. They are already in my presence. I only need to remove them to be physically where they already are spiritually. This is normal Christian living. These are not above the standard. These are simply AT the intended standard. They have only done what they were commanded to do and nothing more. They will be rewarded before the whole world."

This will be a shock to many in the world. And this will be a huge wake up call to myriads of Christians left to pass through the curriculum of the great tribulation. I want to be watching and ready for the Lord Jesus sudden snatching away in rapture.

Originally posted by sonship
Here is the connection between [b]John 6 and Matthew 24.

1.) Jesus exhorts that men take Him in and LIVE because of Him as He lived by the Father.

" As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he also who eats Me, he shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)

2.) In the end times Jesus gains ...[text shortened]... s to live by Him also will be left.

They will be dealt with latter not lost eternally.[/b]

I seem to remember a good teaching on this that claimed the ones "taken" are taken to "judgment".
I'll have to look for it and get back to this.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I seem to remember a good teaching on this that claimed the ones "taken" are taken to "judgment". I'll have to look for it and get back to this.

I am familiar with the view. I'll tell you what the argument is. The one taken is taken to JUDGMENT. This is assuming that "took all away" in verse 39, referring to those who drowned, corresponds to "is taken" in verses 40 and 41, concerning those watching or those not.

What do you think ?

I do not think that verses 40 and 41 refer to Jesus suddenly taking someone away somewhere to be judged, and leaving the unjudged person on the earth. If the parallel holds it would mean He is taking one away to kill him somewhere in judgment.


I have further reasons for counting this interpretation as not too trustworthy.

Originally posted by sonship

I seem to remember a good teaching on this that claimed the ones "taken" are taken to "judgment". I'll have to look for it and get back to this.

I am familiar with the view. I'll tell you what the argument is. The one taken is taken to JUDGMENT. This is assuming that [b]"took all away" in verse 39, referring to those who dr ...[text shortened]... judgment.


I have further reasons for counting this interpretation as not too trustworthy.[/b]

I found the teaching I was referring to.... Because of length I will only post in part....
Let me know what you think, I don't spend a lot of time on this topic, so am not sharp on it...

“one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on earth—some people will be allowed into the Messianic Kingdom on earth and some will be destroyed in the flames of Gehenna. Jesus describes this event in different terms about 50 verses later in his explanation of what is known as “The Sheep and Goat Judgment” (Matt. 25:31-46). The people who are “taken” are the goats, and they are taken away to Gehenna. The ones who are “left” are the sheep, and they are allowed to enter the Messianic Kingdom, the “Kingdom of Heaven.” It helps to understand this section of Scripture if we keep in mind that Matthew 24:3-25:46 is all an answer to the question Jesus was asked in Matthew 24:3.

The Apostles knew some general facts about the end of the Age. For example, they knew about the Tribulation period from the many references to it in the Old Testament (Isa. 13:9-13; 24:1-6; Dan. 12:1; Amos 5:18-20; cp. Matt. 24:21). They also knew that the Tribulation would be followed by Jesus setting up his kingdom on earth (cp. Dan. 2:44; 7:13, 14; Ezek. 40-48), and that the Messiah’s kingdom would be inhabited by resurrected believers (Ezek. 37:11-14; Dan. 12:2; cp. John 5:25-29). Of course, there were things the Apostles did not understand; such as that the Messiah would have to die, be resurrected from the dead, and then ascend into heaven for a time before setting up his kingdom on earth.

The Apostles were anxious for the Kingdom to come, so in Matthew 24:3 they asked Jesus about the coming of his kingdom. Matthew 24-25 are Jesus’ answer to their question. In the first part of Matthew 24 Jesus describes some events of the Great Tribulation, which occurs after the Rapture of the Christian Church and precedes his coming from heaven (Rev. 19:11ff). Matthew 24:30 begins to describe Jesus coming to earth and gathering the elect, who are the ones who will be allowed into the Kingdom. Jesus described the Judgment that will follow his arrival on earth in a way they could all understand it: the Flood of Noah. In the Flood, evil people were “taken” away, while Noah and his family were “left” on earth and repopulated the earth.

After comparing the Judgment to Noah’s Flood, Jesus tells the disciples to watch and be ready, and tells the “Parable of the Ten Virgins” (Matt. 25:1-13) about staying ready in order to be able to enter the Kingdom, and he also tells the “Parable of the Talents” about getting into the Kingdom and being rewarded by the Master (Matt. 25:14-30). Then Jesus returns to his teaching about the events of the Tribulation and Judgment. In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus tells about how, when he comes to earth, he will gather everyone who is left alive after the Great Tribulation “all the nations”. He will have them brought before his throne and he will judge them, dividing the people into two categories: the “sheep” (righteous) and the “goats” (unrighteous). Jesus will let the sheep into his kingdom and they will live on the earth. In contrast, the “goats” will be taken away to destruction. Although it was never stated in the Old Testament or Gospels, we learn from the Book of Revelation, that the first part of Jesus’ Kingdom on earth lasts 1000 years (Rev. 20:2-5).

It is sometimes wrongly taught by Christians that Matthew 24:37-41 is about the Rapture of the Church. But these verses in Matthew 24 cannot be wrested from their context, which is Jesus Christ’s Second Coming, when he comes in judgment to the earth (cp. Rev. 19:11-20:4). Matthew 24:30 says the nations will see the Messiah as he comes in power and glory, and that they will “mourn.” Then Matthew 25:31-33 speaks of the coming of the Messiah and notes that Christ will “sit on his throne” and “all the nations will be gathered before him.” These things are not associated with the Rapture of the Christian Church. At the Rapture, the Church meets the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:17). He never comes all the way to the earth. Those left on earth will be confused about the disappearance of the Christians. They will not know where the Christians went. Furthermore, at the Rapture the nations do not see Christ nor do they “mourn.” So the context shows that Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are speaking of the Second Coming of Christ to the earth to Israel when he fights at Armageddon, judges the people, and sets up his Kingdom.

The meaning of “one is taken, and one is left” is made clear by the words themselves, the context, and the scope of Scripture. The time of Christ’s coming in judgment will be similar to the time of the judgment in the days of Noah when the flood came and “took” people away. Note that Matthew 24:39 specifically says that the flood “took” the unrighteous, while the righteous—Noah and his family—were “left.” That is historically correct. The flood took all the unrighteous people away and left Noah and his family alive on earth. So too in Matthew, the ones who are “taken” are taken for judgment and then “taken” off the earth and sent to the “fire prepared for the Devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41 NIV). Being “taken” is not a blessing. At the Sheep and Goat Judgment, the unrighteous are taken to punishment in the flames (Matt. 25:41, 46), while the righteous are left on the earth and inherit the Kingdom.

REV

Originally posted by chaney3
As I recall, you Rak do NOT believe in the Trinity. Others do.

Don't you think at least knowing who Jesus really is would be a great bit of info to have.....before you start worshiping?

And if it's such clear knowledge, then why do sonship and others not share your same belief?

Having read your posts since you started here, I think you are cut from the same piece of cloth as Bruce and Harriet Nyborg but it's not salesmen you like telling you are almost persuaded, it's Christians.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I found the teaching I was referring to.... Because of length I will only post in part....
Let me know what you think, I don't spend a lot of time on this topic, so am not sharp on it...

“one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on ea ...[text shortened]... att. 25:41, 46), while the righteous are left on the earth and inherit the Kingdom.

REV

Because the article is long and because you are not too keen on its details, my labor on a reply will not be really long.

“one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on earth—some people will be allowed into the Messianic Kingdom on earth and some will be destroyed in the flames of Gehenna. Jesus describes this event in different terms about 50 verses later in his explanation of what is known as “The Sheep and Goat Judgment” (Matt. 25:31-46). The people who are “taken” are the goats, and they are taken away to Gehenna. The ones who are “left” are the sheep, and they are allowed to enter the Messianic Kingdom, the “Kingdom of Heaven.” It helps to understand this section of Scripture if we keep in mind that Matthew 24:3-25:46 is all an answer to the question Jesus was asked in Matthew 24:3.

There is some true things mixed with some errors.

It is true that Matthew 25:31-46 describes Christ determining some survivors of the great tribulation are transferred into the millennial kingdom and some are sent to the "eternal fire" prepared for the Devil and his angels.

i know that you and probably your teacher there just refer to Gehenna flames. Put that dispute aside for the moment please. I agree that the goats are punished and not allowed to enter the millennial kingdom and the sheep are allowed. That is the important point at the moment. Ok?

Now, upon this agreement he says that the one taken should be understood in connection with the punished goats. And the one left should be understood in connection with the sheep left.

This amounts to saying the one taken is taken away to be punished.
And to be left is a reward.

Perhaps the quickest way to examine where the error is in this thinking is to ask - "To WHERE are they taken?"

The answer to WHERE they are taken is the question asked by the and answered by the Lord in the sister passage Luke 17:35-37)

I will quote here but discuss it in another post.

"There will be two women grinding together; the one is taken but the other will be left.

Two men will be in the first; one is taken and the other will be left.

And they answered and said to Him, Where Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together." (Luke 17:35-37)

Where are the ones taken, taken TO? Jesus says they will be taken to where the vultures gather together around the body or the corpse.

Originally posted by sonship
Because the article is long and because you are not too keen on its details, my labor on a reply will not be really long.

[quote] “one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on earth—some people will be allowed into the Messianic Kingdom on earth a ...[text shortened]... sus says they will be taken to where the vultures gather together around the body or the corpse.

Well, like I said, that was part of the commentary. Now I will have to post the rest...

The meaning of “one is taken, and one is left” is made clear by the words themselves, the context, and the scope of Scripture. The time of Christ’s coming in judgment will be similar to the time of the judgment in the days of Noah when the flood came and “took” people away. Note that Matthew 24:39 specifically says that the flood “took” the unrighteous, while the righteous—Noah and his family—were “left.” That is historically correct. The flood took all the unrighteous people away and left Noah and his family alive on earth. So too in Matthew, the ones who are “taken” are taken for judgment and then “taken” off the earth and sent to the “fire prepared for the Devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41 NIV). Being “taken” is not a blessing. At the Sheep and Goat Judgment, the unrighteous are taken to punishment in the flames (Matt. 25:41, 46), while the righteous are left on the earth and inherit the Kingdom. Spiros Zodhiates writes:

In Matt. 24:40-41; Luke 17:34-35, paralambano in the passive form is used as the opposite of aphiemi, “to let be.” In these verses, those who are taken are not to be misconstrued as those whom the Lord favors, as if they were the same saints spoken of in 1 Thess. 4:17 who will be raptured harpazō, “to seize, catch away, as if by force” to meet the Lord in the clouds. The verb paralambano in most cases indicates a demonstration in favor of the one taken, but not always. In Matt. 4:5, 8, it is used of Satan “taking” Jesus up to tempt him. In John 19:16 it is used of “taking” Jesus to lead him to the cross. It is used to refer to those in the days of Noah who were taken away, not being favored but being punished, while Noah and his family were “left” intact. Therefore, in this passage in Matthew and the parallel passage in Luke, paralambano must not be equated to the believers who are to be raptured at the coming of the Lord for his saints. It refers rather to those who, as in the days of Noah, are taken to destruction. The others are left alone (aphiemi) for the purpose of entering into the blessings of Christ’s kingdom (identified by some as the Millennium) and the righteous rule of Christ upon earth” (The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament; entry on paralambano p. 1108).

Robert Mounce writes:

“The man working in the field (Matt. 24:40) and the woman grinding meal (Matt. 24:41) will be taken away in judgment (not to safety; cf. parallel in Matt. 24:39 with those “taken away” by the flood)” (New International Biblical Commentary: Matthew p. 229).

Another clear way we know that Matthew 24:37-41 is not about the Rapture is by comparing it to its parallel Scripture in Luke 17:26-27. As in Matthew 24, in Luke 17 Jesus was asked when the Kingdom would come (Luke 17:20). Luke 17 gives a much shorter answer than Matthew 24, and includes different information, but it speaks of Noah’s Flood, and says when the Flood came, it “destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). Luke also then compared the coming of the Son of Man to the days of Lot, when fire fell on Sodom and Gomorrah and “destroyed them all.” This parallel teaching is positive proof that Jesus was not teaching about the Rapture, because in the Rapture Christians will be taken from the earth while the unrighteous who are left on earth to experience the Tribulation. The unbelievers will not be destroyed at the Rapture, but will continue their lives.

People sometimes doubt that there will be the “Rapture” because Jesus did not mention it in this teaching about the end times. Jesus did not teach about it because it is part of “Sacred Secret,” of the Administration of God’s Grace (see commentary on Ephesians 3:2). The Rapture is not found in the Old Testament or the Gospels but is part of the revelation of the Church Epistles. The revelation that is addressed specifically to the Christian Church is written in the seven epistles (letters) of Paul to the Church, known theologically as the “Church Epistles.” The fact that these seven epistles (Romans through Thessalonians) are especially important to the Christian Church is not often taught, yet it is of vital importance. Israel will not be Raptured, but will be resurrected and then return to the land of Israel (Ezek. 37:11-14).

One last thing to cover is the objection of those Christians who say that the scholars quoted above are wrong and that “take” refers to those who are taken for a blessing in the Rapture while “left” refers to those who are left for judgment. Even though this interpretation ignores the context, there is another, more important point that needs to be made. The context of Matthew and Luke are crystal clear about the circumstances of Christ’s coming, such as the nations mourning and being gathered to the Judgment, and this is plainly his Second Coming and not the Rapture. Therefore, no matter which group is blessed and which group is judged, neither group is Raptured. One is blessed and left on earth to enter the Kingdom (Matt. 25:34) while the other is judged and taken away (Matt. 25:41).

You can view the complete commentary here...I think you will be in agreement..
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Matthew/chapter24/40

"There will be two women grinding together; the one is taken but the other will be left.

Two men will be in the first; one is taken and the other will be left.

And they answered and said to Him, Where Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together." (Luke 17:35-37)

rRather than to be taken away to be killed or punished, they are taken away to be like birds of prey or vultures to swarm around some corpse.

The body or the corpse is Antichrist. Antichrist to Christ is like a stinking corpse of DEATH. He is full of death. But in a sense this Antichrist is like food for the victorious overcoming saints who accompany Jesus to the battle of Armageddon.

The issue of the watching and waiting while living in the church age is to be REWARDED to accompany Jesus Christ to the battle of Armageddon to defeat Antichrist the body and corpse of death. This is part of their reward for living a life of vigilant watching and readiness for Christ's return.

Here we see Christ accompanied in His final battle with overcoming and victorious saints selected to descend with Him.

" These [Antichrist and his armies] will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings;

and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faitfhul, will also overcome them" (Rev. 17:14)

Coming to the battle against Antichrist WITH Jesus Christ are those who are "called and chosen and faithful".

They are not only called and chosen. They have ADDED to this being "FAITHFUL". They were taken in rapture because of the faitfhulness of watching and being vigilant. As a reward they have the honor to accompany Jesus Christ the Lamb in the final battle to destroy Antichrist.

For them it is like vultures or birds of prey swooping down around a dead and helpless corpse. Their rapture was not merely a being taken away from a tribulation time on earth. But is also includes the honorary position of accompanying Jesus to the battle of Armageddon to finally put down history's last evil man and his armies - the Antichrist.

So in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 the being taken should correspond to Enoch being taken before the flood. It should correspond to Lot being taken out of Sodom before it was judged.

Where are they taken? The Lord teaches that they will be taken to be vultures swooping down to wherever on the earth Antichrist finally assembles his armies to directly fight against the descending Christ. And He will be utterly crushed in hopeless defeat.

" Where Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together." (See Luke 17:37)

In connection with Christ being accompanied by His army from heaven of some overcoming believers against Antichrist, you should also read Revelation 19:5-21.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Well, like I said, that was part of the commentary. Now I will have to post the rest...
[quote]The meaning of “one is taken, and one is left” is made clear by the words themselves, the context, and the scope of Scripture. The time of Christ’s coming in judgment will be similar to the time of the judgment in the days of Noah when the flood came and “took ...[text shortened]... ...I think you will be in agreement..
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Matthew/chapter24/40

The Lord tells us that those taken are taken to where the body is, and there the vultures are gathered together. (Luke 17:37).

It is helpful to recall that when the children of Israel were afraid to go into the Promise Land because of the giants, Joshua and Caleb tried to encourage them. They said that the giants would be food for them.

They would be strengthened all the more by obeying the Lord and defeating these people of large stature in Canaan. A similar matter is meant in Luke 17:37. Antichrist and his armies will be as "food" for the gathering vultures which are the overcoming saints just taken.


1.) They are taken not because of disobedience but because of obedience.

2.) They are taken to be gathered together to form an army.

3.) They are taken to wherever the enemy of Christ is, the Antichrist. He is seen here as a person full of death, like a corpse. Christ and His overcomers, however, are full of life.

4.) The taken have already defeated Satan in their Christian living by learning to watch, be vigilant, and live as if the Lord Jesus is ever present. This big enemy is then like "food" for them as the giants in Canaan were as food for the victorious Hebrews.

5.) Wherever this enemy, Antichrist, the stinking corpse of death is, their Christ and His overcoming army will be to swoop down upon him. This will occur in the Holy Land in Israel. This is their reward which commences by their being "taken".

The imagery of vultures hovering around the defeated armies of Antichrist in Revelation 19:17-18 at the great victory dinner of the conquering Christ should remind us of this.

I do not mean the birds there are Christians. But the scene may remind us of Christ's overcomers being there also at the great vanquishing of Antichrist.

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying, to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come here; gather yourselves to the great dinner of God.

That you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of generals and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free and slave and small and great." (Rev. 19:17-18)

This is the scene after Antichrist and his armies have been crushed by Christ and His armies from heaven in His absolute victory.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

The Rapture is not found in the Old Testament or the Gospels but is part of the revelation of the Church Epistles.

The life of Enoch is a OT picture of rapture.

The godly man Enoch walked with God. And he did so for 300 years because he knew that judgment was coming to the earth.

His reaction was to walk with God. And God vindicated his walk by causing him to completely disappear from the world. He was taken somewhere and was not found.

"And Enoch lived sixty-five years and begot Methuselah.

And Enoch walked with God after he had begotten Methuselah [meaning - when he dies it will come] three hundred years, and he begot more sons and daughters.

And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty-five years. And Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him." (Gen. 5:21-24)

Enoch was raptured away as a warning and a testimony to the people on earth.
Though all other men from Adam expired, God showed an exception with this man who "walked with God". He walked right into God's presence and apparently left the earth.

He saw what divine judgment was coming. We see this in naming his son Methusaleh which means "when he dies it will come". The "it" is the judgment of the flood of Noah.

Because God wanted to be merciful and postpone having to judge man as long as He could tolerate, we have Methousaleh as the oldest living human being ever - 969 years. Remember - "When he dies it will come".

God therefore was giving the people the maximum time He could for them to repent of the coming judgement. God took Enoch before the judgement. He disappeared from the earth and was not found.

Originally posted by sonship

The Rapture is not found in the Old Testament or the Gospels but is part of the revelation of the Church Epistles.

The life of [b]Enoch is a OT picture of rapture.

The godly man Enoch walked with God. And he did so for 300 years because he knew that judgment was coming to the earth.

His reaction was to walk with God. ...[text shortened]... t. God took Enoch before the judgement. He disappeared from the earth and was not found.[/b]

Enoch was raptured away as a warning and a testimony to the people on earth.
Though all other men from Adam expired, God showed an exception with this man who "walked with God". He walked right into God's presence and apparently left the earth.

I disagree with your conclusion. Enoch was not "raptured nor taken to "heaven", even though it makes a nice story.
Enoch was simply moved to another place on earth so that he would not see death.
This could mean God moved him to prevent him from being killed or some calamity.
Some erroneously jump to the conclusion that Enoch was taken up into heaven, but notice the Bible nowhere says this. It simply says that God “took him.” It does not specify where he was taken.
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.John 3:13

Was Jesus wrong?

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Hab 3:13
I think this includes Enoch.
How, then, can it be that Enoch was transferred elsewhere so he wouldn’t see death? God doesn’t give us all the details of what happened, but a few scenarios have been proposed that do not conflict with the fact that Enoch died as the Bible says.

It may be that God transported Enoch elsewhere to keep him from being killed at a certain time—perhaps protecting him from martyrdom at the hands of angry persecutors who didn’t like his announcement of coming divine judgment (see Jude 14-16). God likewise supernaturally transported Elijah and Philip to other places on earth.
On the other hand, we should observe that Enoch died young for his time—at age 365 while those before and after him lived into their 800s and 900s. Because of this, some speculate that God “took him” from life prematurely so that he would not have to live out his remaining centuries in a miserable world (compare Isaiah 57:1-2). His next moment of consciousness will be the resurrection. In this case, “so that he would not see death” would refer to his not having to experience the process of dying—his life ending instantly.
So we really don't know what happened to Enoch without more details, but of this I am certain...he was not raptured.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I disagree with your conclusion. Enoch was not "raptured nor taken to "heaven", even though it makes a nice story.

Can you quote me where I wrote that Enoch was taken to heaven?
I didn't specifically say where he was taken.

Enoch was simply moved to another place on earth so that he would not see death.

You don't know that. It is possible. But it doesn't say where.
And if it was to the earth somewhere else, that would still be a rapture.
Phillip the evangelist was also snatched away to another part of the earth.

We do not know where Enoch was taken, period.
He was not found.
I think it was off of the earth.

This could mean God moved him to prevent him from being killed or some calamity.

That was no doubt part of the reason. All things written in the OT were written for the learning and example of New Testament saints.

So I definitely regard's Enoch as a model of a rapture.

Some erroneously jump to the conclusion that Enoch was taken up into heaven,

It seems a conclusion that you jumped to, because I didn't write that.

We really don't know where either Enoch or Elijah were taken. Heaven is possible. I don't know. I think God has more places then we know about.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

On the other hand, we should observe that Enoch died young for his time—at age 365

It doesn't say he died at all. It says how long he lived before he was not found because God took him.

If he just died it is unusual that the same phrasing should not be used for any one of the other ancient people Moses is speaking about.

If "for God took him" simply means death, then they were all taken by God in that sense.

Rapture is commonly viewed as to be in the air with the Lord or in heaven.
Nevertheless these are just possibilities, not scripture etched in stone.

The concept of a remnant of vigilant and watching Christians being taken and rewarded to accompany Christ in His reigning is not only in Luke 17:34-37. It is seen also in Revelation 2:26,27.

'And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;

And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received from My Father." (Rev. 2:26,27)

Luke 17:37 shows the overcomers will be taken to be with Christ as vultures coming down to devour Antichrist and his armies.

But afterwards there are still nations on earth which need shepherding during the millennial kingdom. The shepherding of these nations will be with strong governmental power as symbolized by "an iron rod". As the need arises Christ and His co-kings will have to knock the nations into order by breaking them. The "vessels", the nations, will have to be occasionally busted to maintain the Messiah's rulership over the earth.

Our understanding of Rapture should be adjusted to see that it is not just to meet Christian's need. It is to meet the need Jesus has both to be accompanied to crush Antichrist's opposition and to afterwards to be accompanied to shepherd the nations.

1.) Rapture is a reward
2.) Accompanying Christ at Armageddon is a reward
3.) Co-reigning with Christ to shepherd the nations is a reward.

All these rewards are in addition to the gift of eternal redemption and eternal life.

Since these rewards are conditional upon those for whom eternal salvation has already been accomplished in the affirmative, any teaching that the whole Christian church on earth participates in these matters is not trustworthy.