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In this thread I will discuss my understanding of this passage, which is grasped by Arminians often to prove their Law keeping means of New Testament salvation.
"Not everyone who saus to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.
Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name tah we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons. and in Your name did many works of power?
And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness."
Don't just read this. Pray over it. Absorb it. Enjoy it. And we will discuss it.
Originally posted by sonshipThat day is the final day of reckoning when God will settle all accounts, judging sin and rewarding faith.
In this thread I will discuss my understanding of this passage, which is grasped by Arminians often to prove their Law keeping means of New Testament salvation.
[b]"Not everyone who saus to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.
Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, L ...[text shortened]... ss."
Don't just read this. Pray over it. Absorb it. Enjoy it. And we will discuss it.[/b]
Jesus exposed those people who sounded religious but had no personal relationship with him. On that day only our relationship with Christ our acceptance of him as Savior and our obedience to him will matter. Many people think that if they are good people and say religious things, they will be rewarded with eternal life. In reality, faith in Christ is what will count at the judgment.
Some self – professed athletes can talk a great game, but that tells you nothing about their athletic skills. And not everyone who talks about heaven belongs to God's kingdom. Jesus is more concerned about our walk then our talk. He wants us to do right, not just say the right words. What you do cannot be separated from what you believe.
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The subject I am interested in is whether Romans 9:9,10 is made untrue because of Matthew 7:21-23.
Do I as a Christian have to decide one is the truth and the other is not?
Can I embrace both passages as the trusted word of God?
I maintain, of course. Both passages must be true.
Here is the Romans passage -
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; For with the heart there is believing unto righeousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation." (Rom. 9:9,10)
But how CAN I believe that if Jesus taught that someday He will say to those who called on His name - "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt. 8:23b) And this word is spoken to those who in that day may say [b]"Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we ... etc. etc. etc"
Here are some relevant questions I would propose.
1.) Can Jesus tell some of His servants "Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness" and the departure be temporary and disciplinary ?
2.) Can a servant of Jesus be saved eternally yet rebuked for being a worker of lawlessness ?
3.) Is "enter into the kingdom of the heavens" totally synonymous. in every regard to receive eternal life ?
4.) Can a saved person temporarily be cast out of the kingdom of the heavens ?
5.) Is the only discipline Christ has for defeated servants to deprive them of eternal life ?
6.) Can a saved person have eternal life yet not enter into the kingdom of the heavens for some period of time ?
7.) When is "that day" when Jesus says "Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord ..." ?
Speculation will not due without evidence one way or another from the word of God. So I will try to proceed with evidence rather than on any kind of wishful thinking or imaginative speculation.
Originally posted by sonshipTranslated:
In this thread I will discuss my understanding of this passage, which is grasped by Arminians often to prove their Law keeping means of New Testament salvation.
[b]"Not everyone who saus to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.
Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, L ...[text shortened]... ss."
Don't just read this. Pray over it. Absorb it. Enjoy it. And we will discuss it.[/b]
In this thread I will tell you in great detail what my personal god Witness Lee told me about this passage. Although it is clear what Christ meant it contradicts our once saved always doctrine which is the doctrine that keeps our church [and bank accounts] full, so we have to condemn this passage and turn people against the teachings of Christ.
Originally posted by RBHILLTwo questions Mr RBHill:
That day is the final day of reckoning when God will settle all accounts, judging sin and rewarding faith.
Jesus exposed those people who sounded religious but had no personal relationship with him. On that day only our relationship with Christ our acceptance of him as Savior and our obedience to him will matter. Many people think that if they are good peo ...[text shortened]... o do right, not just say the right words. What you do cannot be separated from what you believe.
1. Where did Jesus speak of a personal relationship with him? Can you provide a quote?
2. Is this : ..faith in Christ is what will count at the judgment.., somewhere in the Bible. If so can you please provide the reference?
Thanks.
Originally posted by sonshipWhere do priests of the Roman Catholic Church that sexually abuse little children fall in all this?
The subject I am interested in is whether [b]Romans 9:9,10 is made untrue because of Matthew 7:21-23.
Do I as a Christian have to decide one is the truth and the other is not?
Can I embrace both passages as the trusted word of God?
I maintain, of course. Both passages must be true.
Here is the Romans passage -
"That if you co ...[text shortened]... eed with [b]evidence rather than on any kind of wishful thinking or imaginative speculation.[/b]
Originally posted by Rajk999More disrespecting of your Christian brothers.
Translated:
In this thread I will tell you in great detail what my personal god Witness Lee told me about this passage. Although it is clear what Christ meant it contradicts our once saved always doctrine which is the doctrine that keeps our church [and bank accounts] full, so we have to condemn this passage and turn people against the teachings of Christ.
Add to that the false witness of putting words in his mouth.
Add to this having the teachings of Christ in your mouth, yet not in your heart.
Perhaps he hit a little too close to home for you?
Originally posted by Rajk999Your ignorance comes only from cherry-picking the very few passages in the Bible that you do believe to be true. One can only assume by this that you mean that you do not believe the rest of the Bible. I think I see the problem with *your* doctrine now.
Two questions Mr RBHill:
1. Where did Jesus speak of a personal relationship with him? Can you provide a quote?
2. Is this : ..faith in Christ is what will count at the judgment.., somewhere in the Bible. If so can you please provide the reference?
Thanks.
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Originally posted by RJHinds
Where do priests of the Roman Catholic Church that sexually abuse little children fall in all this?
Where do priests of the Roman Catholic Church that sexually abuse little children fall in all this?
For every Christian -
"For we [Paul includes himself] must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body accordin to what he has practiced, whether god or bad."
This is for Christians before the 1,000 year millennial kingdom for reward of punishment during the 1,000 years.
For the unbeliever who not been saved by Christ -
"And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose face earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works." (v.11,12)
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (v.15)
Do you know what a priest is ?
I mean in Bible terms rather than in religious traditional terms.
Do you believe in the priesthood of every believer in Christ?
"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nations, a people acquired for a possession, so that you may tell out the virtues of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light." (1 Pet. 2:9)
Are you not a priest too? I am a priest.
Paul said he had a priestly service of preaching the gospel -
"That I might be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, a laboring priest of the gospel of God, in order that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, having been sanctified in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 15:16)
Are you trying to preach the Gospel to men? Then you are also suppose to be a "laboring PRIEST of the gospel" .
There is a good book on this by Witness Lee called "The Priesthood" .
Here's a link to the table of contents. If you're curious you can read it online for yourself.
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=050BFF
Originally posted by sonshipSo does this mean to you believe that the Roman Catholic priests, who are pedophiles that have sexually abused children will be cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone?Where do priests of the Roman Catholic Church that sexually abuse little children fall in all this?
For every Christian -
[b]"For we [Paul includes himself] must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body accordin to what he has practiced, whether god o ...[text shortened]... urious you can read it online for yourself.
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=050BFF
Originally posted by Rajk999Didn't Jesus say?, "And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me..."
Two questions Mr RBHill:
1. Where did Jesus speak of a personal relationship with him? Can you provide a quote?
2. Is this : ..faith in Christ is what will count at the judgment.., somewhere in the Bible. If so can you please provide the reference?
Thanks.
Sounds to me like if you don't know the Lord, and He you, your missing
something important.
Kelly